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Is Jesus God?
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Just another question I have!
Slightly confused as Jesus was born a man and speaks to God, so they cant be the same?
If we pray to Our Father, Son and Holy Spirit are we praying to 3 different people (u know what I mean?)
Slightly confused as Jesus was born a man and speaks to God, so they cant be the same?
If we pray to Our Father, Son and Holy Spirit are we praying to 3 different people (u know what I mean?)
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Beatrice35- Your example about trinity H2O is very old but no Christian priest or preacher understand a very fundamental flaw in their own example. In all three forms you are talking about the scientific formulae stays as H2O. Can we assume that the nature of God, Son and Holy Ghost was same? Does God bleed? Because Jesus (pbuh) did. Does God eat? Jesus (pbuh) did.
For your long lectures, I can only give you this link. Read it with open heart and mind and see if this makes any sense.
http://www.jamaat.net/muhinbible/muhinbible.ht ml
Naomi- You have given this quotation from Sam Harris once before but I think one thing neither you nor this Sam Harris know about Quran is that Quran has no versions. No one in this world so far has found difference of even one word in Quran. Does not matter you are in Australia, America, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, somewhere in Africa or any where in the world. You bring me a Quran in use with a single word different from the other Quran. I told you this before that the sequence of the Huffaz (people who know Quran by heart) has never ever been broken since the time of Muhammad. Muslims recite Quran almost every single day. During Ramadan Quran whole Quran is recited by the Imam by heart during Taraveeh Prayer (special prayer for Ramadan) and if he goes wrong even on one word then there are more than three to four people in the first queue (behind him) who correct him there and then. And no Physical Quran is present during all this. That has been the case for over 1400 years and reason,
Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)
Can Christians say same about Bible? If someone does then he would be the first one in 2000 years. And here is the reason, well here is the reference, check it for yourself.
For your long lectures, I can only give you this link. Read it with open heart and mind and see if this makes any sense.
http://www.jamaat.net/muhinbible/muhinbible.ht ml
Naomi- You have given this quotation from Sam Harris once before but I think one thing neither you nor this Sam Harris know about Quran is that Quran has no versions. No one in this world so far has found difference of even one word in Quran. Does not matter you are in Australia, America, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, somewhere in Africa or any where in the world. You bring me a Quran in use with a single word different from the other Quran. I told you this before that the sequence of the Huffaz (people who know Quran by heart) has never ever been broken since the time of Muhammad. Muslims recite Quran almost every single day. During Ramadan Quran whole Quran is recited by the Imam by heart during Taraveeh Prayer (special prayer for Ramadan) and if he goes wrong even on one word then there are more than three to four people in the first queue (behind him) who correct him there and then. And no Physical Quran is present during all this. That has been the case for over 1400 years and reason,
Verily, We Ourselves have sent down this Exhortation, and most surely We will be its Guardian, (Al-Hijr, 15:10)
Can Christians say same about Bible? If someone does then he would be the first one in 2000 years. And here is the reason, well here is the reference, check it for yourself.
Keyplus perhaps you should read this site, http://www.answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm #compare
keyplus90- If a muslim converts to Christianity their life is under threat. Why is that if you are all so sure of your beliefs that you cannot accept if one of your own converts to another faith especially Christianity? Why would I read any link from someone who believes in a false God? Why waste my time?! Jesus eat, bled, slept + did all that a human did as he came to earth in human form so that we could relate more to God yet he was still without sin from day one until his human bodily death + He was + is perfectly God. Care not that there is only one version fo the Quran as it is word not of God anyhow. The Bible is not all we need as Christians to know God's will for our lives anyhow. As Christians we are in dialogue with Him in prayer + His Holy Spirit lives within us + guides us along with all His angels in Heaven. The muslims do not have an open heart or mind that is why they burn books, have fatwahs against people, treat women like 3rd class citizens + Christians living in Islam countries have to worship God in secret + are often tortured or forced to convert to Islam against their will. Many Christians are killed by Muslims + converts to Christianity have to go into hiding as a gang of Muslims seek them out to kill them + their own family want them dead. There is only one faith- true faith- Jesus being the way to God- Christianity. If you dare to pray to God to reveal himself to you it will be the Christian God + then you will know that the Christian God is the only way to life after life. Be devout for the truth not a lie keyplus90 + naomi- thank goodness God did not let me be born in an Islam country + thank goodness he saved me at the age of 15 :-)
TCL - Mumping - For your link and the person in that named Samuel Green, I can say only one thing that he has no knowledge of Arabic language and most probably he is relying on someone else.
Any way he himself admits that the difference is vowels. And that were added for the none Arabs to enable them to pronounce words properly. Arabs, the people of the language did not need them. Just like English speaking know how to speak Put differently from But.
Beatrice- By saying that you do not want to read the link, you have shown that you are not ready to read what you do not like or may not like. And that is the reason I asked for open heart and mind. Killing anyone who leaves Islam is again a very well known excuse. I can not guarantee for individual incidents. But Islam does not stop any one. Muslims may do in odd incidents. On majority note, I can always buy an air ticket and will provide for your accommodation too if you would like to come with me to Pakistan and I would introduce you to at least 25 people I personally know who left Islam for other religions and are living freely and guess what, No one killed them.
Time to go to bed, rest of it, tomorrow.
Any way he himself admits that the difference is vowels. And that were added for the none Arabs to enable them to pronounce words properly. Arabs, the people of the language did not need them. Just like English speaking know how to speak Put differently from But.
Beatrice- By saying that you do not want to read the link, you have shown that you are not ready to read what you do not like or may not like. And that is the reason I asked for open heart and mind. Killing anyone who leaves Islam is again a very well known excuse. I can not guarantee for individual incidents. But Islam does not stop any one. Muslims may do in odd incidents. On majority note, I can always buy an air ticket and will provide for your accommodation too if you would like to come with me to Pakistan and I would introduce you to at least 25 people I personally know who left Islam for other religions and are living freely and guess what, No one killed them.
Time to go to bed, rest of it, tomorrow.
keyplus perhaps if you read the link more closely you'd read the following
"I am often told by Muslims that the differences between the different Qur'ans are only a matter of dialect or pronunciation. However this is not the case. Subhii al-Saalih is an Islamic scholar in this area. He summarizes the differences into seven categories.
Differences in grammatical indicator (i`raab).
Differences in consonants.
Differences in nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine.
Differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another.
Differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular.
Differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs.
Differences due to dialectical peculiarities.
What is clear from this list is that the differences are more than just differences in pronunciation or dialect."
You may dismiss the opinion of Samuel Green but would you dismiss that of an Islamic scholar?
"I am often told by Muslims that the differences between the different Qur'ans are only a matter of dialect or pronunciation. However this is not the case. Subhii al-Saalih is an Islamic scholar in this area. He summarizes the differences into seven categories.
Differences in grammatical indicator (i`raab).
Differences in consonants.
Differences in nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine.
Differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another.
Differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular.
Differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs.
Differences due to dialectical peculiarities.
What is clear from this list is that the differences are more than just differences in pronunciation or dialect."
You may dismiss the opinion of Samuel Green but would you dismiss that of an Islamic scholar?
Keyplus, In an effort to encourage the religious to see sense, I have posted the piece from Sam Harris before, but sadly you all consistently miss the point. None of you look at your religion objectively. You all believe what you want to believe - which is why you say that every Koran is exactly the same, and then make excuses when someone proves you wrong - just as you make excuses for everything else that's wrong about Islam.
I would love to find out that Subhii al-Saalih is an Islamic scholar from which country and where did he gain his education and most importantly where is he based now. And who else well known agrees with his analysis. I am seriously curious.
Naomi, As far as you are concerned then here you go, Quran has changed and it is so easy. Although the numbers are in sequence but these verses are from three different chapters. Put them together and print a different Quran. But would you be able to circulate it in the Muslim world without being caught out or just leave it on your shelf and be happy that you have proved your point.
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4. Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.
What is the difference between color and colour. Or What would you call a person named Henry if he is English and what about if he is French although it spells exactly same.
In the end, these are my views and I have more reasons to believe than just than just excuses although you may not understand that.
And you always say Jesus was a Jew, I have no objection, could you please clarify since when Judaism started and who were these people before that?
Naomi, As far as you are concerned then here you go, Quran has changed and it is so easy. Although the numbers are in sequence but these verses are from three different chapters. Put them together and print a different Quran. But would you be able to circulate it in the Muslim world without being caught out or just leave it on your shelf and be happy that you have proved your point.
2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
3. If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
4. Then those who reject Faith in the Signs of Allah will suffer the severest penalty, and Allah is Exalted in Might, Lord of Retribution.
What is the difference between color and colour. Or What would you call a person named Henry if he is English and what about if he is French although it spells exactly same.
In the end, these are my views and I have more reasons to believe than just than just excuses although you may not understand that.
And you always say Jesus was a Jew, I have no objection, could you please clarify since when Judaism started and who were these people before that?
Keyplus, we've been through all this many times before with you. We've proven to you that interpretations of the Koran differ, we've proven to you that Mohammed's name is not mentioned in the bible (as you have suggested previously, and as your link suggests), and I'm not about to help you destroy yet another perfectly reasonable thread by going off track so that you can rant about Islam. This question is not about Islam. If you want to spend your life quaking in your boots for no good reason, that's your choice - but do it on your own. Your links and your dire warnings don't impress me, and I doubt very much that they impress anyone else here either.
"I would love to find out that Subhii al-Saalih is an Islamic scholar from which country and where did he gain his education and most importantly where is he based now. And who else well known agrees with his analysis. I am seriously curious. "
He was a vice-mufti in Lebanon who was assassinated in 1986
How about Dr. Bassam Tahhan who also says there are variations?
He was a vice-mufti in Lebanon who was assassinated in 1986
How about Dr. Bassam Tahhan who also says there are variations?
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