Would you save Jesus?

[naomi24]

Christians believe that in order to save their sins, God condemned Jesus to a cruel and brutal death. If you believe that, given the choice and the opportunity, would you rescue him, or would you allow him to die?

[beso]

Killing Hilter or saving Jesus (though he didn't need to be saved since he couldn't die anyway, well at least not permanently) is a silly conumdrum.

Trying to directly contol the future in this way is futile. What needs to change is the idea that killing the perpetrator is the solution. It was not Hitler who built the moral quagmire, he simply led the way.

But he built his edifice on exactly the same primitive phiolosphy that drove the Hebrew massacres. The Hebrews did not invent this by any means. The Holy formula is simply the expediently rationalised manifestation of crude instinct.

Declare you position beyond reproach. Villify the target, build the hype until they are seen as a threat and incite a massacre. Take their stuff. It predates the emergence of the *** genus. Yet the churches whould have us adopt this phiolosophy on the basis that a God told it to someone a long time ago.

We must move on to a broader intelligent understanding of our part in this universe and stop harking back to this primal instinct.

[chakka35]

If you believe the story (which I don't) he was rescued anyway - by Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus.

Crucifixion was designed to be a slow lingering death where the victim could last up to three days. Anyone taken down from the cross after only a few hours would be suffering a sore back from the scourging, holes in his feet and wrists and aching muscles, none of it life-threatening. After a couple of days of TLC from Joe and Nick he'd certainly be able to hobble away.

naomi, you know this. You're just being a tease.

[naomi24]

Yes, of course I know that , Chakka - but I do actually believe that there were schemes afoot. :o)

But what I'm trying to get at is the fact that Christians are happy to accept that someone was actually condemned to this horror in order to save their skins - oops, sorry - sins. Of course, at one time, I believed it all, but since I retrieved my brain from the sticky mits of the religious, if someone offered me the choice now, I'd turn it down. I'd never live with my conscience!

[Seadragon]

Yes, I would try and rescue him. Whatever the consequences for my own soul. That's something I would deal with and live with. (Probably be praying for forgiveness for the rest of my life!) But yes as much as I would try and save anybody else.

[Sqad]

Seadragon

"Whatever the consequences for my own soul"

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, it wouldn't be your soul that would suffer the consequences, it would be your body. You would be next for crucifixion......the next on the block.
That was then.

[Seadragon]

That doesn't matter Sqad - 'I've seen Mel Gibson's 'The Passion of Christ' and cried aaaalllllll the way through it. If there was any way I could save the guy, I would have.

[naomi24]

No she wouldn't Sqad. This is a hypotehtical question (obviously) with no danger to the rescuer.

Seadragon, I'm impressed! Well done you - but then you're not a Christian so you obviously don't believe Jesus died to save your soul, and that without his death you would have to take responsibility for yourself. Seems, like me, you do that anyway.

[Sqad]

Seadragon.....I have no doubt......of course you would have saved him...........sitting in the safety of the cinema with your popcorns on your knees.

[Seadragon]

laughing - that's so bad!! Firstly - I didn't watch it at the cinema. Secondly - The only thing I eat at the cinema is the chocolate coated peanuts (Used to take herbal tea in a flask, but can't be bothered now). And have you seen the film? I cried because my hand wouldn't even transcend the t.v to pull him out and save him.

[Sqad]

Seadragon..LOL LOL

[jno]

naomi, the parallel I had in mind is that these things weren't known at the time. Christians NOW believe he died to redeem their sins, but I don't think they knew anything about this, say, on the morning of the crucifixion - it didn't become part of the Christian message until after his death. So while his disciples might well have rescued him if they'd had the chance, they wouldn't necessarily have comprehended that this would have wrecked God's master plan.

[Ankou]

at the time there were about 80,000 people living in jerusalem, and he had what, 12 - 20 mates at most? and even they were said to have turned their back on him (peter and the chicken - not allowed to say the corrrect term). i guess those few followers were either sh1t scared of being pinned up or so convinced that god and the angels were going to save jesus, that they were helping or letting him follow what he thought was his destiny, or the prophecy from birth to death.

i like the analogy you refer to jno, since retrospectively chanigng the course of history they carry so much weight. it was nearly 300 or so years after jesus that they decided this was how it was to be written. had he been rescued (probably by romans), then the story might have been so very different. had hitler been bumped off early on, then the 20th c might have been a bit different, wouldn't it.

no apologies for the 'might have beens'.

[naomi24]

Jno and Ankou, Thanks for your answers, but I really meant the question to be viewed from a personal level in the present day. It's a question of ethics. Is it acceptable to you that a man was condemned to death in order to redeem YOUR sins? (Apologies for the capital letters, but there's no other way to emphasise words here at the moment). Morally, it seems a pretty shallow and selfish bargain, which to me would be completely unacceptable).

(Actually, I believe he was rescued, but that's another story).

[Ankou]

but i am against capital punishment anyway, so in present day it has no meaning. i would save him, even if he did in his head believe he was doing it for my good.

[naomi24]

Thanks for all your answers. It seems quite sad to me that, despite believing Jesus died for them, given the opportunity, not one Christian would be willing to take responsibility for their own sins and come to his aid.

[Ankou]

that conclusion being derived from there being no christians wishing to entertain your q with an answer ?

[naomi24]

Good point Ankou. My apologies. I should have said none who were willing to answer this question.

[Ankou]

maybe all of them would save jesus. but none were willing to chat with you.

[naomi24]

Yes, maybe, but that's something we'll never know, so there's no point in hypothesizing.

Thanks for your answers.

[beso]

I just noticed they *** where I referred to the genus H0m0 in my first post.