A ttheory.......

[sherminator]

ok bare with me I don't even know if this makes sense....

Key plus always argues that islam is more 'correct' than Christianity-as in less flaws and loopholes...
And I also think Islam is younger than Christianity?

well does it follow then that the most complete religion should be scientology........does it follow that the younger the religion the more 'correct' they are?

Just the ramblings of a mad man bored whilst eating my Branflakes this morning!!!

[keyplus90]

Scientists discovered nuclear power and few used it for bad purposes. Same goes to drug abuse too according to you. Can we say the same for the religions as few people abused these too?

Naomi - I did not know you had personal life too. After all when it comes to personal life then it was not as pain ful I guess, Otherwise you wouldn't have gone past one, would you? According to you my religion insults women more than one way. And I asked you this before that majority of the people in the West who are converting to Islam are women. Why don't you open their eyes.

[keyplus90]

And by the way I have two same kind of women in my own household. One as wife and one as mother - in - law. And guess what, they have no regrets at all.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, Well now you know, but once again I'll ignore your rudeness since it stems, as always, from want of rational argument. You don't appear to realise it but your post speaks for itself and doesn't actually warrant a considered response. However, since it seems you are quite determined to remain blind to reality I would point out that the only reason the majority of western people converting to Islam are women is because those women are marrying Muslim men.

[Ankou]

"the only reason the majority of western people converting to Islam are women is because those women are marrying muslim men"

whats wrong with that ? presume they have the choice, or are you suggesting they are forced to convert ?

[keyplus90]

///the only reason the majority of western people converting to Islam are women is because those women are marrying Muslim men.///

Even when (according to you) they know that Islam insults women and Muslims oppress them. I can't understand the logic naomi. May be the reason is still the same that I am blind about the reality (again according to you).

[beso]

There are many people, both men and women who are content to be told they are worthless. Providing a greater cause to devote themselves to makes them feel like there is a purpose to their lives. It is their right to choose this way of life..

However, rate of conversion, even in large numbers does not endow the religion with credibility. It says more about the nature of the people converting than what philosophy they convert to. No theist belief can withstand an investigation of its credibility. The belivers casually avoid this problem by refusing to debate as we have seen with Keyplus. Like others I have tried to engage, the subject is instantly changed to "what is so good about atheism" or "look at the trouble caused by atheists". Anything but discussing their fundamental philosophy. It is beyond discussion because it is accepted as faith.

It might be good for you but I will not have bigots who follow ridiculous philosophies presuming superior morality and expecting to control the rest of society as religions have done for all of history, often enforced through violence. Those who are happy to be minions of the faith are very handy for implementing brutality as required in the name of God.

The Abrahamic faiths are all based on a rotten core of sinister, primitive beliefs. Followers have long tried to paper over those flaws. Those who are wanting better from humanity are no longer willing to allow the spread of this corrosive ferment without real discussion of its consequences. Much of what is wrong with the world has its roots in the unsavoury theistic teachings and believers are now being asked why we should continue to endure their domination.

As we see, the theists have no sensible answers. Make this debate public and their castle crumbles. Our future lies with the young. Help them defend against theist pollution and we will see a better world.

[LazyGun]

@Beso - excellent, rational and well argued post Beso.
@Keyplus - It is like listening to a broken record, Keyplus. First you denigrate science or blame all the ills of the world on it, or claim it doesnt hold all the answers. I have told you, as have, i am sure, others, that "Science" is NOT some monolithic entity, or faith. but a process, and a process that has, provided overwhelming benefits for humanity. Only the most blinkered of individuals would attempt to argue otherwise.
You probably do not watch "South Park" - but, there is a fairly harmless but useless individual, Mr. Mackie - and his catchphrase is " Don't do drugs, M;Kay? Drugs are bad" - A laudable message - but you paraphrase him continually in your posts - " Don'd do Science, Mkay? Science is bad" = This message is not even faintly laudable but very risible.

[mibn2cweus]

Whilst sitting on the 'throne of wizdum' I theosophically deduced from what was revealed unto me that, as religions go, the sacrement of eating branflakes might be an improvement over most considering what one can reasonably expect to derive as the outcome.

[naomi24]

^^ Some analogy! Tut tut! :o)

Keyplus, Some women don't mind being treated as less than equal, and some who have always been treated as such know no differently and wouldn't dare speak up even if they became aware. I know you can't understand the logic but that's because you refuse to see it. Would you swap your role as a Muslim man for that of a Muslim woman? Think about it, and let me know.

[keyplus90]

Beso – Nice post but I think same for atheists. In my mind atheism is as much faith as any religion. Can you prove indefinitely that God does not exist? You believe he does not. Then there is another reason. It might not be logical for you as acceptable logic changes from person to person and faith to faith. There is a huge number of people who have believed in God generations after generation. Can you tell me how many people are there who are atheists generation after generation?

Lazy Gun – First of all I am glad that you have proved my words (your name tells me a lot) right yet once again. You are doing what any atheist would be super quick in assuming that anyone who believe in God is against science. But yes I do believe that science does not have answers to all the question. And no one in right mind can deny that. So yet again no more time to waste on you.

[keyplus90]

Naomi – Normal yourself. When you do not find an answer (suitable) then you try changing and twisting subject. You mean to say (now) that all the women who are converting to Islam have always been treated badly. By whom then? For your final question. Although I know what your response would be but Yes I would not mind being a woman in Islam as respect a women receive in Islam is lot more than any where else. Islam has given individual rights to woman as daughter, sister, wife and mother as well as just being woman but I will only give you examples of what Islam says about mother.

Quran 4: 1. ………, and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

Quran 31:14. And We have enjoined on man (to be good) to his parents: in travail upon travail did his mother bear him, and in years twain was his weaning: (hear the command), "Show gratitude to Me and to thy parents: to Me is (thy final) Goal.

A Hadith,
A man once asked the Prophet to whom he should show the most kindness. The Prophet replied: "Your mother, next your mother, next your mother, and then your father." (Sunan of Abu-Dawood)

Another Hadith,
“Paradise is under the feet of mother”.

The only liberty a woman is usually deprived of is symbol on her forehead “You are a sex object so try staying on the shelf by doing whatever”.

[LazyGun]

@Keyplus - Care to elaborate on what you mean regarding my screen name? That wouldn't be a weak attempt at an ad hominem attack would it, an implicit admission that you cannot construct an effective argument? Perhaps it was your attempt at humour. My sides are splitting.
Your sentiment "No more time to waste on you" - sounds like yet another admission of your inability to construct an effective rebuttal to points i have raised.
The nearest you come to any sort of counter is that , as an atheist, I automatically assume all faitth-heads are anti-scientific.This is not true. I have a lot of time for Kenneth Miller, a respected biologist who also happens to be a fervent christian. The main reason I have time for him is that he doesn't try to deny what science tells him, rejecting evidence in favour of myth. I argue against those, like you, who demonstrate, in post after post after interminable post, their anti-scientific medieval and irrational views.

[naomi24]

Keyplus, what does 'normal yourself' mean? I'm not with you. I haven't twisted the subject, and I didn't say that all women converting to Islam have always been treated badly. I was inferring that Muslim women are accustomed to being treated as less than equal. The Koran makes no bones about it. It says in no uncertain terms that men are superior, it instructs men to beat their disobedient wives, and it commands Muslim women to be subservient - and they are. If that's what you call respect then I suggest you don't know the meaning of the word. You wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of such treatment.

You have it the wrong way round. Islam perceives women as sex objects, which is why they are obliged to cover up and to lower their gaze in the presence of men. Muslim men clearly have trouble controlling their animal urges. I don't for one moment believe you'd swap roles - unless, of course, you would relish spending your summer holidays like this.

http://chromatism.net.../images/burqaswim.jpg

I think mibs drew the right conclusion.

[beso]

Keyplus. Generations of people have belived the Earth was flat. That didn't make it right.

Once again you do exactly as I have indicated by moving the subject away from your primitive philosophy which clearly cannot sustain even superficial investigation.

I do not have a faith that there is no god. I simply have not seen any evidence of a god nor the need for one to explain our exixtence. The burden of proof lies with the theists and they have none. I do believe there is a god that has been created by theistic believers and much evilhas been perpetrated in His name. "And on the seventh day man created God in his image."

Logic does not change from person to person and it has absolutely nothing to do with faith. Logic requires coherant and non-contradictory beliefs. It requires objective truth. Not one truth for woman and another for men.

I am struck by the remarkable similarities in the worship of the mother by both Catholic and Muslims. Of course her purpose is limited to figurehead and reproductive facility for her limited rights are clearly designated by the faith.

Keyplus you are incapable of contemplating an alternative set of beliefs because you have been indoctrinated. You know no other way. Your core belef warns against any diversion from that obsession. In contrast I have contemplated many philosophies including religiious beliefs and eventually grew to find the theist mentality utterly abhorant. Your beliefs are a profound illness of spirit.

[keyplus90]

Naomi – That link really shows and proves me right. Had that woman been naked then you would have called her liberal. But beauty of a woman should be for her husband and if you can’t contemplate that and call it perceiving as sex object then perhaps you do not understand difference there is between husband and others. And I call them public property because they do not belong to anyone. Their every thing is available for every one with no distinction. And I don’t think any sensible woman want that liberty. Perhaps after being liberal that way then they decide to marry a Muslim and become what you believe. And yet once again your quotation of Quran(out of context of course) tells me how limited knowledge you have.

Beso – You are right majority of people believed Erath was flat until couple of centuries ago. Quran speaks about exact shape of the earth (1400) years ago.
So you have studied a lot of philosophies but you could not find any reason to believe that God exists. You show me pain and I will show you God.

[WaldoMcFroog]

It was theorised by Greek scholars such as Pythagoras that the world was spherical as early as the 6th C BCE, and proven by observation in the 3rd C BCE, so the idea that the Koran was in any respect novel or innovative in repeating this idea hundreds of years later is simply and provably wrong.

[suzie1]

sherminator, look what you have started now.....naomi wants to *** off muslims again the silly person

[saida]

I don’t think that it would make scientology the correct one. lol They way I understand Islam is it builds on the 2 other major religions. For example, Christianity builds on Judaism, thus Jesus (peace be upon him) was Jewish not Christian. A lot of the christen faith has been changed. like the trinity idea, that was voted on by priests 300 years after his death.. don’t quote me on the years though, I know it was some time after jesus dies (Peace be upon him). I think Islam completes them all, setting down the rules as straight for ward as God wanted. To me the all original had the same teachings ... One God and no partners... but man is imperfect and changed it to best suite their needs.

[naomi24]

Nakedness in public is not something that appeals to me - but then that is my personal opinion, which as a western women, I am at liberty to hold. However, that is irrelevant. That picture shows a family on a day out, but the woman alone is fully covered and looking absolutely ridiculous. Even her hands are hidden - and for God‘s(?) sake why? As a human being, I find it not only incredibly sad, but a damning indictment of Islam - and I find it absolutely appalling that you, apparently, see nothing wrong in it. She is a PERSON, Keyplus, so what makes her so very different from the rest of her family? No other culture on this earth feels the need to treat women so abominably - and that is a sad indictment on Muslim men.

You are digging the hole even deeper, by automatically assuming that any woman belongs to any man. I am an equal partner to my husband, and rightly so. A woman isn’t a possession or an object - she isn’t an ornament, or something to be used as and when men see fit - she’s a human being with feelings, and emotions, and thoughts, and she is a person in her own right. What gives you, or any other man, or, indeed a book, the right to decide to whom a woman displays her beauty? Her attributes are hers - not yours - so why shouldn’t that be her own choice? And I would like an answer to that.

I haven’t said anything out of context - but if you want the verses you know full well that I will provide them.

[saida]

Islam is Only 600 years younger than Christianity. Yet it was written back then in the book that the earth was round... actually it compared it to an oval, which is what the earth is... since it is not perfectly round. So it says a lot about the religion knowing that 1431 years ago.