Haiti. Where was your God?

[jason.p]

I know it's an old chestnut, but looking at the scale of suffering in Haiti today, what sort of God can allow such a thing to happen. Surely this must test the faith of the most hardened zealot. It's interesting that our so called "secular" society is always among the first to respond with spontaneous generosity. Do the other faith based countries (esp the oil-rich ones) display the same caring attitude to their fellow human beings?

[joggerjayne]

Don't they practice Voodoo in Haiti ?

[waterboatman]

It's also a strong Chritian society. But their god alowed their bishop to die and their cathedral to be destroyed. Draw your own conclusions.

[waterboatman]

That should be Christian society.

[chakka35]

Yesterday, on Radio 4's Today programme, a similar question was put by John Humphrys to The Archbishop of York, Dr John Sentamu.

As an example of rambling incoherence Sentamu's reply could hardly be bettered. It really is worth listening to. Go to the Today website, click on Listen Again, choose Thursday 14th and scroll down to 0831.

I defy anyone to make sense of Sentamu's verbal meanderings. Humphrys certainly couldn't.

[waterboatman]

That says it all!

[Old_Geezer]

I expect it was welcoming all those who had moved on from physical life.

What are you expecting ? A god that intervenes everywhere so you are never in harm ? How would one gain anything from one's existence that way ?

And where do you get the idea that secular society is the first to help ? Government should be secular but the population will be a mix of beliefs. Where is your evidence that deeply religious countries are tardy in helping ?

[jake-the-peg]

This reminds me somewhat of the Lisbon earthquake of 1755

A very religous community in church on all saints day. Most of Lisbon was destroyed. Voltaire seized on it when he wrote Candide saturizing religious notions like "we live in the best of all possible worlds" and "All is for the best".

Of course the Lisbon eathquake was one event that helped to crystalise modern atheism but it relied on having a doubting intelligensia already in place. I doubt that exists in Haiti!

As for other countries generosity we tend to focus on our own and western countries are in the best position to provide immediate technical assistance.

Here for example is a breakdown of donations for the Boxing day Tsunami.

http://news.bbc.co.uk...a-pacific/4145259.stm

But Saudi Arabia gave $30 million plus an additional personal $31 million donation. Remember that some countries "donations" have a habit of coming out of existing international aid budgets and some (the US in particular) comes in terms of trade credits for goods and services from the US.

The huge Military aid about $2 billion a year the US gives Israel is US foreign aid much of that goes straight back to US arms manufacturers.

Then articles are written about how the US is the worlds most generous nation in foreign aid

Bless their little hearts

[naomi24]

I heard that too, Chakka, and I couldn't make sense of it either - but then, in circumstances such as this, it is no more than I would expect from a man of the cloth.

[Mr Veritas]

Thanks for the link chakka,
I listened (open mouthes) to all of the Archbishop's statement.
Did it make any snese.
NO!
Was I surprised by it?
NO!
Does it make an iota of difference to those poor people in Haiti?
NO!
When at last people realise there is NO God,then they will stop running to a non~existent being for help/excuses/salvation.
Marx was right when he said~
"Religion is the opium of the masses"
for the 21st Century susbstitute Cocaine/Heroin/Cannabis for Opium.

[Rev Sermon]

To answer the question not defend christianity -

1) God moves in ways mere mortals cannot comprehend.
2) Trials such as these make the pious stronger and ease the passage into heaven etc. etc. etc.
3) Religion is based on blind faith so no evidence to the contrary makes one iota of difference.

Same old chestnuts I'm afraid but you cannot use logic or evidence or rational argument against a commited believer in any god

[dave068]

I'm waiting to hear how much the Vatican will be sending in aid, after milking the poor for generations in the name of Religion.

[jno]

Atheists hail death of thousands in earthquake as proof that they are right.

Yay.

[jason.p]

I accept that many governments make the "grand political gesture" and donate what appear to be large sums of money (usually tax payers money anyway), but it's the spontaneous generosity of the man in the street, the widow's mite, that I'm referring to. Disaster funds and relief efforts arise immediately, and the cheques start rolling in from ordinary people who feel genuinly moved to do what they can. I accept that I probably made a rush to judgement about other countries efforts, but it's always seemed to me to be it's a particularly "British" thing.

[naomi24]

jno. no one has hailed the death of thousands. What a terrible thing to say!

[craft1948]

my first husband (a mormon) lost his faith after Aberfan......

[jason.p]

jno...totally out of order

[fredpuli47]

But a survivor is found alive after days buried under rubble one of the faithful will say 'It's a miracle ' or 'Our prayers are answered' without noticing that the 'miracle' which God has performed is only possible because God allowed the earthquake

[jno]

you are using a massive human tragedy as a springboard to talk about your distaste for Haitians' religion. ('Their god allowed their bishop to die.') How tasteful.

'It's interesting that our so called "secular" society is always among the first to respond with spontaneous generosity.'

So the quake is a fine opportunity to show the wonders of secularism.

'I'm waiting to hear how much the Vatican will be sending in aid, after milking the poor for generations in the name of Religion. '

Great - it's also given us a chance to point out the wickedness of the demon Rome.

I can't wait till a Christian dies on your doorstep and you take the chance to say 'Hey, guess your god really let you down this time, didn't he?'

Because that's exactly what you're saying now.

[naomi24]

Jno, shame on you! And you have the gall to accuse others of making tasteless comments? Well, if that’s what religion does to the minds of its followers, all I can say is thank ‘God’ I’m an atheist!