Atheists on Jesus

[Erin-Rose-x]

What are atheist beliefs about Jesus Christ?

[jake-the-peg]

I couldn't agree with that Naomi

I don't think you could find a single instance of a society however primative that didn't evolve a religious belief!

Humans are hard wired to look for connections, the idea of cause and effect gets fixed in our brains at the age of about two and it's so strong that when we see an effect we can't explain we look for a cause.

If we can't find a cause we invent one.

So I would say that theism is actually the default state for humans.

I agree it shouldn't be, in a modern world where most people are quite higly educated, but it is

[naomi24]

Theism is the default status once peope have been indoctrinated, Jake, but not before that. It isn't the natural state.

[Davethedog]

Oh interesting.

My favorite quote of all time Voltaire - If God did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him.

I think Jake is right, if humans don't understand anything, a lot, will say its supernatural.

[society]

For a man who did not exist, a lot has been said about him, and will be said about him.

[naomi24]

Dave, that's the point exactly. Because people say things are supernatural, we've accepted that as the norm and invented a word to describe those who don't. No one is born believing in God, and therefore non-belief is the default position for a human being so a word to describe that is entirely unnecessary.

[naomi24]

Hello society. :o)

[chakka35]

Sound points made so far: that all atheists don't think alike, apart fom their disbelief in gods; that Jesus may or may not have existed as an ordinary nomadic rabbi; that the Jesus story is based on the pagan god-man story which predated it by centuries.

If you start from scratch, the idea of Jesus was introduced by Paul in his epistles in about AD55, with nothing at all before that. There is nothing about him in any Jewish or Roman records of his supposed time. The gospels were written much later by unknown people who weren't there. There is not a single ear- or eye-witness report of anything Jesus is supposed to have said or done.

So Jesus has the same historical status as Juno, Apollo, Jupiter or Sherlock Holmes i.e none at all.

[naomi24]

What? Do you mean Sherlock Holmes wasn't real? Oh no! I'm devastated! :o)

[society]

Hi Naomi! x


Just an observation - What amazes and impresses me are people who don't believe in Jesus, the Holy Bible, religion etc. knows the bible and can quote the scriptures so well, better than me who is a believer. I wished I knew that much. Hats and scarves of to you all!

[naomi24]

society, has it occurred to you that the reason we don't believe it is because we know the scriptures so well? It's a thought. ;o)

[society]

I consider myself still young, Naomi. I do have a lot yet to learn. :-)

[naomi24]

:o)

[jake-the-peg]

No I think indoctrination is about getting other people to focus their religious feelings in the way that you want them to.

I think religious feelings are a natural by-product of the way our intelligence works.

Not only have we the evidence of countless civilisations who have independantly invented religions but there is separated twin evidence showing the tendency for religiousity

[Ankou]

i think i agree with jake.

humans have a universal capacity to classify and encode their experiences symbolically, and then communicate symbolically encoded experiences socially. this is the evolution of humans and of culture, which includes supernatural symbolism and spiritual beliefs.

1. a new pattern of behavior is invented, or an existing one is modified.
2. the innovator transmits this pattern to another.
3. the form of the pattern is consistent within and across performers, perhaps even in terms of recognizable stylistic features.
4. the one who acquires the pattern retains the ability to perform it long after having acquired it.
5. the pattern spreads across social units in a population. these social units may be families, clans, troops, or bands.
6. the pattern endures across generations

it is interesting that the increase in religion within human evolution and development has coincided with the reduction in brain size.

[naomi24]

Interesting Jake. So do you believe that some people possess a religious gene?

[LazyGun]

@ Ankou - In your post, you state " it is interesting that the increase in religion within human evolution and development has coincided with the reduction in brain size."
Did you mean to say that? It is my understanding that brain size has increased with evolution, regardless of the religiousness or otherwise :)

The other points you made - are you talking about memes?

@ Jake - I think that as newborns and in early years, the default state of religiousity within an individual is atheist. But, as a species, we are hardwired for a narrative view of the universe, and we gain that narrative view through mimicry and adoption of a worldview. Most of that information inevitably will come from the parents.
Brainwashing is perhaps a perjorative term ,but, as a species, it is undeniable that much of those early beliefs and experiences occur through mimicry and imprinting.

Various studies i have read, and indeed my own experience, have emphasized the point that for many people, religiousness was passed on from the parent - and proves remarkably resistant to critical and sceptical analysis.