Japanese Tsumami

[Lonnie]

Lets just assume that there is a God, the God of the NewTestament, Torah and Qur'an, then what would be his/her role in this catastrophe?.

[wildwood]

So to recap...... when a baby is born it is a gift from God but when that baby dies a few months/weeks later it is a test of our faith!

I can not imagine that anyone could ever convince me that this God is the same one that was rammed down my throat at school; Good, Forgiving and Omnipotent.

I wonder what He will make of the Muslims killing other Muslims enmasse because they don't agree!

[Huderon]

Jomifl, I did think about it and decided that it's the equivalent of a cryptic crossword clue where I'm concerned - utterly meaningless. But I'm sure it is a very good put down anyway :-)

[jomifl]

Huderon..'Irrationalisation' wasn't meant as a put down, it was meant to describe what you were saying as concisely as possible without a lot of long winded argument. Since logic is not applicable to arguments about religion with people of deeply held faith and you appear to be one of the aforementioned I thought it pointless to persue any line of reasoning. If however there is anything in the bible that you find difficult to accept thus showing that your faith is not completely blind then I will be happy to discuss the irrationality (or not) of 'faith'.

[seadogg]

What has this land of Shinto-Buddhism got to do with the God of the New Testament etc.?

[Huderon]

Oh, right - the first part shouldn't have been there - entirely my fault, I was thinking about something else and got distracted. Perhaps it will teach me to read over what I've written before posting in future.

You also miss the point - well a little bit anyway. We have free will, so are at liberty to choose whether or not to follow the rules laid down by God. God may well know the outcome, but the choice is ours to make.

It's easy to become complacent, so the point of the testing is to exercise faith. For most believers that happens in small ways, enough to keep their hand in as it were, so that should they ever have to face a major test of their faith they have at least a reasonable chance of keeping it.

Oh, and as I recall Job, Satan tells God that Job is only faithful because he is cosseted and that Job would lose faith if really put to the test, whereupon God gives Satan permission to do his worst.

[jomifl]

How kind and loving..so glad that god doesn't really exist except as a concept.

[rowanwitch]

I think plate tectonics is easier to believe in than the concept of 'god' I like Gaian theory myself that the planet is a single self regulating organism.... and we are temporary bugs and our damage will be repaired over the millenia when we no longer exist....
But learning compassion for the troubles of others is of value of itself and does not need the involvement of hypothetical deity

[starone]

Perhaps everlasting life is true inasmuch as our bodies become fertiliser. eventually, for the next crop of whatever is growing, which provides food for whatever is eating it and so on - in fact the circle of life. So one way or another the stuff our bodies are made of goes on, only in smaller bits. I'm not explaining it very well I know. Also, of course if you have children your genes go on in some way. The world we live on and the sun that gives us energy are the only important things. What I find distressing is the thought that our knowledge will die with us. Sometimes I wonder why we bother to learn, although I suppose we can pass on our knowledge to others if we can find someone who will stand still long enough to listen.

[jomifl]

Hi Rowan.. The Gaia theory is very seductive especially as there seem to be many self regulating mechanisms, both living and geophysical. I'm sure that there is something in it, rather more a super ecosystem than a world sized organism. Even so I think that we can assume that it's'wrath' is not as cruel and vindictive as 'god's'

[Davethedog]

Huderon I think you will find that most of the rules that your religion adheres to are man made.

The only rules you could argue, and I stress could, came from god are the 10 commandments and as there were more than 10 you can argue that man was very selective there.

Most of the observed rules concepts and indeed perceptions are man made as succesive Popes and other ecclesiastic leaders bent the "word" of god to thier own will.

[Huderon]

jomifl, appearances can be very deceptive :-)

[Huderon]

Davethedog, where on earth did you get the notion that I adhere to any faith ?

By the other commandments, I'm guessing that you are referring to the Book of the Covenant which was incorporated into the Torah. Since Christianity didn't really take in Judea, but did in Greece and Rome, I don't find it very surprising that the early church didn't adopt it. Selective ? Certainly, but don't ask me why they did that - I wasn't there :-)

[Huderon]

burdie, missing the point works both ways :-)

The nearest analogy I can come up with is this ...

A teacher sets up an old, but obscure, experiment for a student to do, so the outcome is known to the teacher but not the student. The student is given the option to perform the experiment or not - he or she can walk away with no comeback or do the experiment and learn something new.

With these tests of faith, God knows the outcome, but we, the ones who have to make the choices, don't.

[redman41]

Unfortunately it is the forces of Nature that have been unleashed on the People of Japan ! It has happened before all over the World and will continue to happen.
Not sure whose God is going to stop it, certainly not mine !

[jomifl]

Huderon you do seem to have faith in what is written in the religious books. So that is a faith of some kind isn't it?

[Huderon]

jomifl, I was brought up in one branch of Christianity, and attended faith schools, at a time when it was considered important that the faithful should have an understanding of the basis of that belief.

The end result is that I have a basic grasp of some of the theology associated with Christianity, and can understand where they are coming from, without being a believer myself.

I'm sure there are all kinds of faith - for some it is science, for others it could be any one or more of the hundreds of Gods people of various faiths have. It is quite possible for a believer to accept the results of scientific understanding and still believe in God. The two are not, to my mind, mutually exclusive.