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Man Utd - Serious Discussion
Ok, without any mud-slinging back and forth, just how deep rooted are the problems at Man Utd? Weak squad (which Fergie could see coming), players wanting to leave (Rooney, Van Persie, Vidic), teams not scared of attacking at Old Trafford, Old Red Nose at every game can't help, and Moyes has now lost the plot stating that they are having to 'play against the referees' as well. Just how bad will things get? Interested to hear from any SERIOUS Man Utd fans.
Answers
I can see years of problems at Old Trafford if things continue as they are. I believe the owners of the club are paying back 70-odd million a year in interest, meaning they cannot afford the superstar signings in the way Man City, Chelsea etc can. If United miss out on Champions League football next season, as seems likely, top stars will steer away from going...
08:48 Thu 09th Jan 2014
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Although a Man City fan I’m not a fan of schadenfreude, and although I don’t live there any more I still consider myself Mancunian. So in terms of (especially) international competition, if Man C fail to progress I hope Man U are there to further Manchester success. It gives me no pleasure to see Man U struggling but I think it’s far too early for the board to think of replacing Moyes. He replaced someone considered to be the greatest manager of all time, so he can’t just step in and be the greatest manager of all time. His first season was destined to be difficult – it’s a new regime following a very long and hugely successful one, and he needs the scope, funds and time to mould the ideal squad to match his way of approaching games.
His ‘rant’ about referees is no different from other managers’ rants about referees, the press, blah blah – they all do that. With hand on heart I hope Moyes stays and builds his team to match the achievements of Sir A. Man City is my team, but Manchester is my city and I’d like both teams to do us proud.
His ‘rant’ about referees is no different from other managers’ rants about referees, the press, blah blah – they all do that. With hand on heart I hope Moyes stays and builds his team to match the achievements of Sir A. Man City is my team, but Manchester is my city and I’d like both teams to do us proud.
I think you summed it up all Dave, to be honest never thought they would go downhill like this.
i think moyes is well safe there for a couple of years at least, remember fergie struggled when he 1st took over all those years ago.
if Rooney and co do move on don't know who he is going to replace them with?
on another note i fancy your lot for the title this year i like their style of football.
i think moyes is well safe there for a couple of years at least, remember fergie struggled when he 1st took over all those years ago.
if Rooney and co do move on don't know who he is going to replace them with?
on another note i fancy your lot for the title this year i like their style of football.
I am not a Man U fan but a football fan.
Though Man U won the league last year fairly easily I think everyone could see that the squad and team was not that good.
They were lucky with injuries (it is very rare for Van Persie to go a whole season without a major injury, he rarely had one while at Arsenal).
Also it has to be said that Fergie was the best at getting a top performance out of average players and teams.
It was also a year when the other teams around the top were not doing their best. Man C had a poor season, Chelsea had all sorts of manager/striker problems, Arsenal had just sold Van Persie and were no threat, and Liverpool were just getting their act together.
So it is probably true that if Fergie was still in charge THIS year, but had LAST years team, they would not win the league so easily now that all the other clubs have got their act together.
Having said that, the fact that Moyes had not won a SUNGLE CUP in 11 years at Everton should have sent alarm bells ringing. Particularly when you think Wigan and Swindon won the two cups last year, and Moyes could not manage it once at Everton.
Also the changeover at Man U was handled badly, with Fergie and David Gill both going at the same time.
Fergie did not want to buy any players in case Moyes did not want them, and with Gill going Moyes had little time to get his feet under the table before the season started.
He then panic bought Fellaini when most people felt he was not worth 27 million and may not even be good enough to be in the Man U midfield.
Moyes has had bad luck / problems with injuries (Van Persie and Rooney have been out a lot, Fellaini is out, Ferdinand and Vidic and Carrick have all missed games and so on.
Moyes also has the huge spectre of Fergie hanging over him, sitting in the dugout with the huge Alex Ferguson stand opposite him.
I gather Fergie suggested Moyes, but I feel they should have gone for a "bigger" name, who could have demanded new players and attracted big players (Moyes is not a big enough manager to attract the big names).
Someone like Mourinho wold have been a far better choice and was far more likely to attract big players and win the Premier league and Champions league.
Maybe his behaviour at Real Madrid, that time he crept up and twisted a persons ear during an argument, probably did not help his cause.
But there are plenty of other big name managers who would have loved the job and I cant see Moyes lasting the one season to be honest.
Though Man U won the league last year fairly easily I think everyone could see that the squad and team was not that good.
They were lucky with injuries (it is very rare for Van Persie to go a whole season without a major injury, he rarely had one while at Arsenal).
Also it has to be said that Fergie was the best at getting a top performance out of average players and teams.
It was also a year when the other teams around the top were not doing their best. Man C had a poor season, Chelsea had all sorts of manager/striker problems, Arsenal had just sold Van Persie and were no threat, and Liverpool were just getting their act together.
So it is probably true that if Fergie was still in charge THIS year, but had LAST years team, they would not win the league so easily now that all the other clubs have got their act together.
Having said that, the fact that Moyes had not won a SUNGLE CUP in 11 years at Everton should have sent alarm bells ringing. Particularly when you think Wigan and Swindon won the two cups last year, and Moyes could not manage it once at Everton.
Also the changeover at Man U was handled badly, with Fergie and David Gill both going at the same time.
Fergie did not want to buy any players in case Moyes did not want them, and with Gill going Moyes had little time to get his feet under the table before the season started.
He then panic bought Fellaini when most people felt he was not worth 27 million and may not even be good enough to be in the Man U midfield.
Moyes has had bad luck / problems with injuries (Van Persie and Rooney have been out a lot, Fellaini is out, Ferdinand and Vidic and Carrick have all missed games and so on.
Moyes also has the huge spectre of Fergie hanging over him, sitting in the dugout with the huge Alex Ferguson stand opposite him.
I gather Fergie suggested Moyes, but I feel they should have gone for a "bigger" name, who could have demanded new players and attracted big players (Moyes is not a big enough manager to attract the big names).
Someone like Mourinho wold have been a far better choice and was far more likely to attract big players and win the Premier league and Champions league.
Maybe his behaviour at Real Madrid, that time he crept up and twisted a persons ear during an argument, probably did not help his cause.
But there are plenty of other big name managers who would have loved the job and I cant see Moyes lasting the one season to be honest.
VHG, agree with all of that, but also can't help thinking the players must take a huge amount of the blame. Coming off the pitch after the last 3 defeats, they looked as though they really weren't that bothered. I get the impression they think they are 'big time charlies' and believe Moyes is beneath them. (Van Persie certainly does!) It's a sad reflection if they still need a Fergie 'hairdryer' to get them motivated.
Because the Media (TV and Newspapers) are based in London and Manchester, there has always been bias in favour of anything that happens in these Cities.
Football is no exception and Man Utd are put on a Pedestal, many thinking they have the divine right to win everything Year in and Year out.
Winning Trophies has to be earned both on and off the field, but because of the arrogance that permeates throughout the Club from Management down to the Supporters, losing games is hard to take !!
Every Club will be judged in May when the Season ends, and if Man Utd end up winning nothing, then so be it. What's the big deal ??
Every dog has it's day as they say, so it would be good for Football if other Teams won the major Trophies instead.
Wouldn't it be nice to see West Ham v Sunderland in the Final of the Carling Cup, rather than the usual suspects every Year. ??
It's nice to see the Mancs squirming !
There are 19 other Teams in the Premier League and Fans of those Clubs will have a big smile on their faces at the moment ! :-)))
Football is no exception and Man Utd are put on a Pedestal, many thinking they have the divine right to win everything Year in and Year out.
Winning Trophies has to be earned both on and off the field, but because of the arrogance that permeates throughout the Club from Management down to the Supporters, losing games is hard to take !!
Every Club will be judged in May when the Season ends, and if Man Utd end up winning nothing, then so be it. What's the big deal ??
Every dog has it's day as they say, so it would be good for Football if other Teams won the major Trophies instead.
Wouldn't it be nice to see West Ham v Sunderland in the Final of the Carling Cup, rather than the usual suspects every Year. ??
It's nice to see the Mancs squirming !
There are 19 other Teams in the Premier League and Fans of those Clubs will have a big smile on their faces at the moment ! :-)))
Because of our illustrious recent past this is looking like a very bad season, but if you look at the number of points we have now, after 20 games, and compare it to last seaon, we have the same number of points, 34 as Arsenal then.
People were not saying Arsenal were in crisis because they only had 34 points because people were used to them being poor. For United to drop to that level is obviously not good enough and we know it.
United need to rebuild and that will take 3 years. We may have to under achieve for a few years to get back to strength.
The fact that Sir Alex watches the matches is totally irrelevant to anything.
People were not saying Arsenal were in crisis because they only had 34 points because people were used to them being poor. For United to drop to that level is obviously not good enough and we know it.
United need to rebuild and that will take 3 years. We may have to under achieve for a few years to get back to strength.
The fact that Sir Alex watches the matches is totally irrelevant to anything.
Was a football fan a long time ago, lost interest when all the diving and demanding for cars in contracts etc started.
From what I can gather, Fergie almost begged Moyes not to get rid of the back room staff. Moyes went against that and installed his own crew.
Why change the cogs of a well oiled machine? All that changed was the steering wheel, the engine didn't need to go to!
Wasn't the (long ago now it seems) Liverpool invincibility of the 70's/early 80's brought about by the 'bootroom boys', ex players and coaches brought up on the Liverpool way, thus ensuring longevity and success?
Fergie had instilled that at United, Moyes swept it away in one fell swoop. Bar Phil Neville, who else has that sort of pedigree among Moyes staff?
From what I can gather, Fergie almost begged Moyes not to get rid of the back room staff. Moyes went against that and installed his own crew.
Why change the cogs of a well oiled machine? All that changed was the steering wheel, the engine didn't need to go to!
Wasn't the (long ago now it seems) Liverpool invincibility of the 70's/early 80's brought about by the 'bootroom boys', ex players and coaches brought up on the Liverpool way, thus ensuring longevity and success?
Fergie had instilled that at United, Moyes swept it away in one fell swoop. Bar Phil Neville, who else has that sort of pedigree among Moyes staff?
>>>but also can't help thinking the players must take a huge amount of the blame.
When a team is playing badly it is often said that the manager has no control over what the players do once they cross that white line onto the pitch.
I have often felt that is a load of rubbish.
If players know they are going to get a real boll**ing from the manager at half time or at the end they will make darn sure they perform.
I think every player was scared of Fergie (even Keane) and you knew you could not perform badly or you would get the famous hair drier treatment.
So every player under Fergie made sure they performed at 100%.
Few manager (including Moyes) can instil that fear in players so as soon as Fergie left it was obvious the players would only perform at say 80% or 90% of what they did under Fergie.
And with the "average" squad that they currently have then an 80% or 90% performance was not enough.
Liverpool had their day, and then lost that "magic" and of course have never won the Premier League title.
Maybe Man U will have a few years before they get the magic back again.
I am old enough to remember when Busby left and it took them a while to replace him, he even had to come out of retirement for a while as they could not replace him.
I REALLY hope the same does not happen with Fergie if Moyes leaves or is sacked.
Fergie, please don't spoil the reputation you have by trying to manage Man U again.
When a team is playing badly it is often said that the manager has no control over what the players do once they cross that white line onto the pitch.
I have often felt that is a load of rubbish.
If players know they are going to get a real boll**ing from the manager at half time or at the end they will make darn sure they perform.
I think every player was scared of Fergie (even Keane) and you knew you could not perform badly or you would get the famous hair drier treatment.
So every player under Fergie made sure they performed at 100%.
Few manager (including Moyes) can instil that fear in players so as soon as Fergie left it was obvious the players would only perform at say 80% or 90% of what they did under Fergie.
And with the "average" squad that they currently have then an 80% or 90% performance was not enough.
Liverpool had their day, and then lost that "magic" and of course have never won the Premier League title.
Maybe Man U will have a few years before they get the magic back again.
I am old enough to remember when Busby left and it took them a while to replace him, he even had to come out of retirement for a while as they could not replace him.
I REALLY hope the same does not happen with Fergie if Moyes leaves or is sacked.
Fergie, please don't spoil the reputation you have by trying to manage Man U again.
Because of our illustrious recent past this is looking like a very bad season, but if you look at the number of points we have now, after 20 games, and compare it to last seaon, we have the same number of points, 34 as Arsenal then.
People were not saying Arsenal were in crisis because they only had 34 points because people were used to them being poor. For United to drop to that level is obviously not good enough and we know it.
Still can't resist a dig, eh Gromit? 'United to drop to that level'? In terms of points maybe, but I would say you are a long way beyond that level in terms of squad, morale, form etc
People were not saying Arsenal were in crisis because they only had 34 points because people were used to them being poor. For United to drop to that level is obviously not good enough and we know it.
Still can't resist a dig, eh Gromit? 'United to drop to that level'? In terms of points maybe, but I would say you are a long way beyond that level in terms of squad, morale, form etc
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