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What Would Have Happened If He Had Been A Muslim?
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Would he have still been thrown out if he had been a muslim and said gay marriage was against his religion ? I somehow think not.
Would he have still been thrown out if he had been a muslim and said gay marriage was against his religion ? I somehow think not.
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The trouble with the gay lobby sp1814 included is the fact that there are bound to be people who don't agree with gays, gay's lifestyles or gay marriages etc.
While most of these people would wish gays no harm, the gay lobby are not content with that they themselves are not prepared to accept that others may hold different opinions to them, and if they had their way they would have all these 'bigots' and 'homophobics' (their words) condemned out of hand.
While most of these people would wish gays no harm, the gay lobby are not content with that they themselves are not prepared to accept that others may hold different opinions to them, and if they had their way they would have all these 'bigots' and 'homophobics' (their words) condemned out of hand.
sp1814
/// Seeing as the world has moved on, what's all this guff about marriage equality being sinful? ///
It has moved on, once it was a criminal offence to be gay and gay marriages now do take place.
Don't be too upset at being called a sinner, if you are an atheist it doesn't mean a thing, unlike those words that are aimed at those who disagree with certain aspects of homosexuality.
/// Seeing as the world has moved on, what's all this guff about marriage equality being sinful? ///
It has moved on, once it was a criminal offence to be gay and gay marriages now do take place.
Don't be too upset at being called a sinner, if you are an atheist it doesn't mean a thing, unlike those words that are aimed at those who disagree with certain aspects of homosexuality.
Buffet faith.
Practiced by people who pick and choose which bits of religious text agrees with their own bigoted views whilst ignoring all the edicts that sit alongside them (as I have quoted throughout this thread).
The problem with religious fundamentalists is that they are not happy with keeping these views to their own followers. They try to determine public policy based on their religious beliefs.
If a Christian is against marriage equality, fine - but they should not be able to force others to live and act I accordance to their beliefs.
If gay people want to have civil ceremonies, why do (a minority of) Christians complain?
They even complained about civil partnerships.
I think intolerance was invented by religious fundamentalists. They created this narrative. They continue to promote it. It's something they've been doing for millennia, so it's hardly surprising that a substantial number of people are getting fed up with them.
Oh, and I hope you realise that the 'gay lobby' now includes a wide spectrum of people - most of whom are not actually gay.
This is evidenced by the massive number of people in favour of marriage equality (all the polls in the past five years show this).
Practiced by people who pick and choose which bits of religious text agrees with their own bigoted views whilst ignoring all the edicts that sit alongside them (as I have quoted throughout this thread).
The problem with religious fundamentalists is that they are not happy with keeping these views to their own followers. They try to determine public policy based on their religious beliefs.
If a Christian is against marriage equality, fine - but they should not be able to force others to live and act I accordance to their beliefs.
If gay people want to have civil ceremonies, why do (a minority of) Christians complain?
They even complained about civil partnerships.
I think intolerance was invented by religious fundamentalists. They created this narrative. They continue to promote it. It's something they've been doing for millennia, so it's hardly surprising that a substantial number of people are getting fed up with them.
Oh, and I hope you realise that the 'gay lobby' now includes a wide spectrum of people - most of whom are not actually gay.
This is evidenced by the massive number of people in favour of marriage equality (all the polls in the past five years show this).
sp1814
I think that I could turn your thread completely on it's head just by referring it to gays as you have done to those religious bigoted fundamentalists as you have so rudely described them.
/// The problem with GAY fundamentalists is that they are not happy with keeping their views to their own followers. They try to determine public policy based on their own SEXUAL LEANINGS. ///
/// If a PERSON HAPPENS TO BE GAY, fine - but they should not be able to force others to live and act in accordance to their
SEXUALITY. ///
/// If gay people want to have civil ceremonies, why do (a minority of) Christians complain? ///
It is a fundamental right in a free society to complain against all matter of things, (not just gay issues) which they may disagree with.
/// I think intolerance was invented by religious fundamentalists. They created this narrative. ///
One could equally say that some Gays are also very intolerant to straight people.
/// They continue to promote it. It's something they've been doing for millennia, so it's hardly surprising that a substantial number of people are getting fed up with them. ///
Gays also continually promote their sexuality, take the Gay Pride marches for example, and a substantial number of people are getting fed up with it, fed up with being called a bigot or a homophobic if they don't dance to their tune.
/// This is evidenced by the massive number of people in favour of marriage equality (all the polls in the past five years show this). ///
There is also a massive number of people in favour of us getting out of Europe, but that does not stop others disagreeing with it.
This is life SP, one cannot expect others to agree with matters just because you yourself have a particular axe to grind.
I think that I could turn your thread completely on it's head just by referring it to gays as you have done to those religious bigoted fundamentalists as you have so rudely described them.
/// The problem with GAY fundamentalists is that they are not happy with keeping their views to their own followers. They try to determine public policy based on their own SEXUAL LEANINGS. ///
/// If a PERSON HAPPENS TO BE GAY, fine - but they should not be able to force others to live and act in accordance to their
SEXUALITY. ///
/// If gay people want to have civil ceremonies, why do (a minority of) Christians complain? ///
It is a fundamental right in a free society to complain against all matter of things, (not just gay issues) which they may disagree with.
/// I think intolerance was invented by religious fundamentalists. They created this narrative. ///
One could equally say that some Gays are also very intolerant to straight people.
/// They continue to promote it. It's something they've been doing for millennia, so it's hardly surprising that a substantial number of people are getting fed up with them. ///
Gays also continually promote their sexuality, take the Gay Pride marches for example, and a substantial number of people are getting fed up with it, fed up with being called a bigot or a homophobic if they don't dance to their tune.
/// This is evidenced by the massive number of people in favour of marriage equality (all the polls in the past five years show this). ///
There is also a massive number of people in favour of us getting out of Europe, but that does not stop others disagreeing with it.
This is life SP, one cannot expect others to agree with matters just because you yourself have a particular axe to grind.
//The problem with religious fundamentalists is that they are not happy with keeping these views to their own followers. They try to determine public policy based on their religious beliefs.//
I agree with you that we don't want religious fundamentalists imposing their views on the rest of us, SP.
Now let me ask you to consider how much of a problem this is.
I'm going to compare two legal systems - Mosaic law which you've quoted from so extensively and amusingly on the one hand, and Islamic law (which is largely based on it) on the other.
Question one: Is there any country in the world whose criminal law and penal code are based mainly or in large part on Mosaic law?
Question two: Is there any country in the world whose criminal law and penal code are based mainly or in large part on the Sharia?
Question three: which religion has the greater proportion of fundamentalists and religious conservatives - Christianity or Islam?
Question four: do you think the Islamic world as a whole is moving in a more or a less liberal direction?
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I agree with you that we don't want religious fundamentalists imposing their views on the rest of us, SP.
Now let me ask you to consider how much of a problem this is.
I'm going to compare two legal systems - Mosaic law which you've quoted from so extensively and amusingly on the one hand, and Islamic law (which is largely based on it) on the other.
Question one: Is there any country in the world whose criminal law and penal code are based mainly or in large part on Mosaic law?
Question two: Is there any country in the world whose criminal law and penal code are based mainly or in large part on the Sharia?
Question three: which religion has the greater proportion of fundamentalists and religious conservatives - Christianity or Islam?
Question four: do you think the Islamic world as a whole is moving in a more or a less liberal direction?
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AOG
"One could equally say that some Gays are also very intolerant to straight people."
What???
Gay people are intolerant of irrational hatred directed at them.
Don't paint all straight people with that brush. That is really very wrong.
The vast majority of straight people (especially younger people) are decent and non-bigoted. It's just a tiny (and VERY vocal) minority who are the problem. They don't just 'disagree', they actively seek to treat gay people as second class citizens. They have MUCH more experience of this, because that's what the narrative has been for so long.
Their hate has bred hate.
They are the ones who support laws allowing companies to sack gay people.
They are the ones who launch boycotts against companies who offer equal rights to gay staff.
They are the ones who kill and imprison gay people.
They are the ones who target gay people for physical and verbal abuse.
They are the ones who throw gay teens out of their homes when they find out their sexuality.
I think you're point of view is ill-formed.
"One could equally say that some Gays are also very intolerant to straight people."
What???
Gay people are intolerant of irrational hatred directed at them.
Don't paint all straight people with that brush. That is really very wrong.
The vast majority of straight people (especially younger people) are decent and non-bigoted. It's just a tiny (and VERY vocal) minority who are the problem. They don't just 'disagree', they actively seek to treat gay people as second class citizens. They have MUCH more experience of this, because that's what the narrative has been for so long.
Their hate has bred hate.
They are the ones who support laws allowing companies to sack gay people.
They are the ones who launch boycotts against companies who offer equal rights to gay staff.
They are the ones who kill and imprison gay people.
They are the ones who target gay people for physical and verbal abuse.
They are the ones who throw gay teens out of their homes when they find out their sexuality.
I think you're point of view is ill-formed.
sp1814
/// They are the ones who support laws allowing companies to sack gay people. ///
What are the laws that allow companies to sack people, and name such companies?
/// They are the ones who launch boycotts against companies who offer equal rights to gay staff. ///
Please provide an example of which companies are boycotted?
/// They are the ones who kill and imprison gay people. ///
Well at least we know which religion does that.
/// They are the ones who target gay people for physical and verbal abuse. ///
Gays are not on their own as regards this, there are many none gays who are targeted for physical and verbal abuse.
/// They are the ones who throw gay teens out of their homes when they find out their sexuality. ///
Who are these particular 'ONES' you keep going on about?
I think it is you who may be a little bigoted.
/// They are the ones who support laws allowing companies to sack gay people. ///
What are the laws that allow companies to sack people, and name such companies?
/// They are the ones who launch boycotts against companies who offer equal rights to gay staff. ///
Please provide an example of which companies are boycotted?
/// They are the ones who kill and imprison gay people. ///
Well at least we know which religion does that.
/// They are the ones who target gay people for physical and verbal abuse. ///
Gays are not on their own as regards this, there are many none gays who are targeted for physical and verbal abuse.
/// They are the ones who throw gay teens out of their homes when they find out their sexuality. ///
Who are these particular 'ONES' you keep going on about?
I think it is you who may be a little bigoted.
AOG
For the boycotts - go to the Million Moms website.
For details on countries which imprison and have the death penalty for being gay - check Wikipedia. You will note that there is a Muslim and Christian countries lead the way.
Regarding the laws that allow companies free reign to sack gay people, check the 'Religious Freedom' acts that have been enacted at federal (not state) level in the US. And guess what! These aren't Muslim states - they are states where fundamentalist Christians have lobbied senators and governors to give them the right to deny gay people employment and/or spousal benefits.
Please explain to me how denying gay people health benefits available to straight couples is a good thing.
Who really benefits from that.
I can understand Christian fundamentalists disagreeing with acceptance of gay people but really - do they want gay people not to he health coverage???
Why?
For the boycotts - go to the Million Moms website.
For details on countries which imprison and have the death penalty for being gay - check Wikipedia. You will note that there is a Muslim and Christian countries lead the way.
Regarding the laws that allow companies free reign to sack gay people, check the 'Religious Freedom' acts that have been enacted at federal (not state) level in the US. And guess what! These aren't Muslim states - they are states where fundamentalist Christians have lobbied senators and governors to give them the right to deny gay people employment and/or spousal benefits.
Please explain to me how denying gay people health benefits available to straight couples is a good thing.
Who really benefits from that.
I can understand Christian fundamentalists disagreeing with acceptance of gay people but really - do they want gay people not to he health coverage???
Why?
The thing that you need to understand is this - once you persuade those in authority that being gay or same sex marriage is a sin, you are then in the perfect position to influence publicly c policy to the detriment of gay people.
It goes from being a point of view to negatively impacting someone else's life.
If the people in question are rapists, paedophiles, rapists, fraudsters, burglarers, bank robbers, arsonists etc then that is not necessarily a bad thing. All of those groups make like worse for the rest of us.
However, if you attack gay people - nobody really benefits.
We are moving to a place where more people see this.
It goes from being a point of view to negatively impacting someone else's life.
If the people in question are rapists, paedophiles, rapists, fraudsters, burglarers, bank robbers, arsonists etc then that is not necessarily a bad thing. All of those groups make like worse for the rest of us.
However, if you attack gay people - nobody really benefits.
We are moving to a place where more people see this.
