Nhs Privatisation

[fiction-factory]

I was just listening to an interesting set of discussions about the election on the radio and a Labour supporter/spokesman said tat the main reason Labour 'won' is that the public could see that the NHS is on its knees because of privatisation and Labour would solve the problem by ending/reversing privatisation. The accusations of Tories wanting to privatise it further were mentioned in the campaign too
.
Now I accept that the NHS is (and may always be stretched) but I am just not sure what people are referring to when they say the NHS is being privatised. Are they referring to contracting out of things like catering? Or is about operations, ?And why is this crippling the NHS? I can see that some may think money is being ’ lost’ to cover the profit of the providers but even of this were true would it significant?

Can anyone please explain what privatisation is in place and why it’s seen to be such a drain on NHS resources

[rockyracoon]

My friend works (worked) for the NHS, but they have been recently taken over by a private company. She does some kind of occupational therapy down in Kent.

[mushroom25]

Google "virgin care Swindon" and read the sun article from April. sorry can't do links from smartphone which is my only means of access.

[Zacs-Master]

Good article here ff. and seeing it's in the Guardian, it's more likely to err on the side of criticism (extent of privatisation) than not:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/aug/15/creeping-privatisation-nhs-official-data-owen-smith-outsourcing

[goodgoalie]

One of the main reasons the NHS is so strapped for cash is the crippling debt from the misguided reliance on Private Finance Initiatives (PFIs) brought in by Major and extended under Blair. Have a look here at the eye-watering amount owed:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/nhs-funding-pfi-contracts-hospitals-debts-what-is-it-rbs-a7134881.html

[scooping]

At every election in my adult lifetime Labour has said the NHS is only safe in in their hands. Yet the Conservative Party in government has increased spending, in real terms, on the NHS more than Labour in government. There has been no privatisation of the NHS and NO CUTS in NHS spending under this Tory government or during the coalition period. The Tory party has never cut spending on the NHS.

[dannyk13]

//Initiatives (PFIs) brought in by Major and extended under Blair.//
So the Tories are getting blamed for what Blair did.

[fiction-factory]

Thanks for replies. I've not had chance to read through them all yet. Will do so later and respond

[Old_Geezer]

No reason Labour can't tackle the NHS issues in 5 years' time. For the next 2 years we need some government not out to cripple the negotiations for post-Brexit.

And yes, many parts have been privatised already. My sister used to work in the NHS, but it all got moved to the private sector. She works there now.

[fiction-factory]

Yes, looks as if around 7% of the budget goes on services that have been contracted out- eg some after care .
Most businesses contract out some aspects if there is a business case for it so they can focus on their main strengths, knowing the cost (including profit to the external company) is less than the inhouse cost, so I don't think outsourcing/privavtisation is necessarily a bad thing, so long as proper service standards monitoring and penalties are in place.
It depends whether the outsourcing is being done based on a good financial case or is being done for political reasons which can't be justified on economic grounds.
At present levels of around 7% of NHS spending being on privatised services I can't see how bringing it in house could save more than £2 billion of the NHS budget (it may actually cost £2 billion more to do it in house) so whilst that would be an important saving it is nowhere near enough to save the NHS if the finances are as dire as some suggest.
I haven't studied the PFI stuff yet but that horse has already bolted hasn't it- Blair/Brown put a lot into that- so I am not sure anything can be done to reduce those payments, but I will read up on it when I get chance

[Old_Geezer]

You lose control, not to mention the ability to easily bring things back in house. If one is a health service there ought not be anything one can't do as well or better than an outside agency. Health IS your strength. No point paying for another's profit margin. If someone can do the job cheaper something's being cut, corners maybe, or fair pay. It's an appalling idea.

[cassa333]

I really don't have a problem with outsourcing if it's economically the right thing.

The NHS is so cumbersome and beurocratic that is is a dinosaur as a business model.

I know, I know it isn't a business but if it were run more like one it would have money enough for some of the more expensive treatments. As it is you can't even put up a pin board up without it costing £200.

There is no boubt that there are fantastic, dedicated people working in it but use it as a showcase around the world and they laugh at the way it is run.

The concept is the envy of the world. The sooner everyone realised that the sooner we can make it run for the benefit of everyone.

[sevenOP]

..."said that the main reason Labour 'won' ..."

Another guess.


Simon Stevens is worth scrutiny

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Stevens_(NHS_England)

this interview should be looked at utilising critical thinking



please bear in mind your own username and that we have possibly been living with disinformation since humans existed.

Morality appears/has always appeared (?), by me, to be encapsulated on the alleged Groucho Marx quote

"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."