Labour Creeping Up The Polls, As We Enter The Party Conference Season

[mikey4444]

http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/homepage.html

Just a snap shot of course, but its interesting to see how the decline of the Tories is still happening.

[EDDIE51]

Kromovaracan There WAS a referendum on Proportional Representation it was in 2011
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011

[EDDIE51]

^ It was so soundly beaten with 68% against, it will never be repeated.

[Kromovaracun]

Alternative Vote is not PR.

[ToraToraTora]

what is it then?

[dannyk13]

An alternative to first past the post,

[Kromovaracun]

It's a majoritarian system. It's not designed to reflect the proportional share of each party's votes in the outcome.

[ToraToraTora]

PR by seat then.

[Kromovaracun]

Not really, they are fundamentally different systems.

[hereIam]

NoM - we are already halfway to saying goodbye to this country, I'm afraid. Too late now. I wouldn't mind a Labour government, but not Corbyn.

[cassa333]

There was a time, not so very long ago that all the knives, matchetts and short swords were out for JC. They even had a leadership fight. But once he actually made a bit of headway (after conning the gullible) he is now almost the next best thing to sliced bread.

Beware predicting doom and gloom,on a leader. You may have to eat your words.

[-Talbot-]

Labour can not make its mind up on Brexit.

Soft Brexit, hard Brexit, soft Brexit.

[Davemano]

Another thread bought on purely from OPINION. Done.

[jim360]

"PR by seat" is not actually a thing. But this has been explained to you several times before, TTT -- at some point, maybe, you could start paying attention perhaps?

[-Talbot-]

Is he wrong?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/stig-abell/stig-abell-labour-are-laughing-at-us-over-brexit/

[ToraToraTora]

AV is PR by seat one candidate has to get over 50% by re allocating second/third etc choices. Dress it up as you want but ultimately the winner is not purely the one with the most votes.

[jim360]

Yes but that's got nothing to do with PR!

It's not difficult. PR systems are when seat numbers correspond (exactly or as near as exactly) with vote numbers; anything else is, by definition, not PR. "PR by seat", if it meant anything, would be an MP who was 40% Labour, 40% Tory and 20% miscellaneous.

AV is a system designed solely to ensure that the winner of a seat has the majority support of voting constituents (and in particular, the winner of a seat would certainly not have lost a two-horse race) but potentially ends up being less proportional than first-part-the-post. It is not PR. Learn how voting systems work, and how they are identified.

[ToraToraTora]

I know how voting systems work jim, you yourself use the word proportional in your answer. Yes PR by seat is achieved by massaging the votes because there is only one MP so the proportionality is done statistically during the process. It's quite possible to get 49% of the vote in a seat and still lose because of the allocation of the secondary, tertiary choices etc. Th the public didn't got for it anyway.

Interesting view in talbot's link, Pro brexit Labour laughing at the remainiacs, over to the Labourites!

[jim360]

"I know how voting systems work jim, you yourself use the word proportional in your answer."

You clearly don't if you insist on describing a not-at-all proportional system as proportional. Also, when I did use the word, it was in a sentence explaining how AV was so not Proportional that it was "LESS proportional than FPTP." (emphasis added to make the point even clearer)

Selective quoting much?

There is nothing proportional about AV... end of.

[Kromovaracun]

Alas, the conversation with 3T pretty much sums up what happened in the 2011 referendum.

Oh well. We're stuck with the current system forever now.

[ToraToraTora]

"Oh well. We're stuck with the current system forever now. " - the only sensible system.