Sprichst Du Deutsch?

[bainbrig]

An elderly Austrian friend used to say of Hitler that one of things she abhorred (apart from the obvious) was his 'appalling German' (i.e. his spoken German).

I know about four words of German, so didn't really understand what she meant. I have a notion that she is talking about class rather than misuse of the language - in this country, people could have said the same about the late Bob Crow, cockney-speaking leader of the rail unions.

So, any fluent German speakers out there - could you comment on HOW Hitler said what he said, rather than what he said? Was his spoken German 'appalling'? If so, can you explain how?

Thanks.

BB

[jourdain2]

I was always taught that 'ich' had the same guttural sound as 'loch'. I've always used that and not had any complaints or problems - maybe people were being polite.

In France I was often asked if I was from Alsace, the northern English tones must have come through. Locally, the patois was indecipherable and differed greatly from one side of the R. Charente to the other. My physio (French) told me he couldn't understand some of his patients and a Parisian who moved down could only converse with the British contingent - the French don't like Parisians, so that may have had something to do with it, of course.

[Khandro]

The Germans are not snobbish about their many dialects though they don't always understand one another. I recently saw an interview with a Bavarian farmer speaking 'German' on mainstream TV to which had been added subtitles.

[bainbrig]

Maybe not snobbish, but certainly class conscious, unless all the other answers here are wrong!

[zebo]

We once were hosts to a couple of German teachers during a student exchange and once spent a drunken evening trading swear words. Their view was that if a German wanted to swear he generally resorted to English, far more scope!
There had been some incident up at Otterburn that made the TV news, we found the broad Geordie accent of the reporter very hard to follow but the Germans found it very easy.

[jourdain2]

The French love using the 'f' word - I think that they think that it is sophisticated!

[Khandro]

BB; //Maybe not snobbish, but certainly class conscious, unless all the other answers here are wrong!//

I haven't read all the answers but if they say the Germans are class conscious then they are wrong.

[bainbrig]

Well, the general consensus is that Hitler spoke ‘low’ German, and was mocked by the ‘high’ German speaking classes, in the same way that a broad Scouse accent (for example) would be looked down on by RP-speaking Brits.

Call it what you will, you can’t rewrite history.

[Buenchico]

I was talking to a lady at the wake after my uncle's funeral a fortnight ago, who asked me if I could identify her accent. My first guess was South African, to which she replied "That's what everyone says but I'm European". So I tried Dutch next, to which she replied "That's everyone's second guess too". It eventually turned out that was Austrian, from Graz.

I expressed my surprise as I told her that, when listening to people speaking German, I can usually tell the difference between German, Swiss and Austrian accents. (Her Graz accent is definitely unlike that of people from Vienna though. She actually sounded more Swiss than Austrian to my ears).

I'm not entirely sure exactly hat the differences are although, as suggested above, the pronounciation of 'Ich' and other consonant sounds can give a few clues. This young singer is clearly Austrian, rather than German, - he's actually from Kremstal, in Upper Austria - but it's not always so easy to pick up on the differences:

[Khandro]

Just because there is such a thing as High German, doesn't by any means mean that the rest is "Low German" (implying inferiority), they are simply different dialects -maybe more than 200 I'm told.

Regarding "class"; After the WWII Germany made a fresh start with a new democratic constitution and is today a country of freedom of opportunity rather than one of inherited privilege, much less class-obsessed than Britain or France.

[bainbrig]

Thanks Buenchico, interesting.

Khandro: I’ve never tried punching a sponge, but I’m beginning to understand what it might be like.

There IS a form called High German, there IS a form called Low German. Germans and linguists call it so. Whether class is or is not a factor is arguable, but the perception of Hitler’s spoken German as being “appalling” was widespread, just as widespread as the right-wing jokes in this country about the English of Jack Dash, Dennis Skinner, Arthur Scargill, Bob Crow, et cetera.

I would rather Hitler was condemned for his crimes against humanity rather than his manner of speech. Can we agree on that?

[kvalidir]

When we went to live in Germany when I was younger my new step father said 'Learn to speak German properly- not like me'- he was from Thuringen and I didn't know what he meant, but he was referring to dialect and showed me this, which underlines even for none German speaker about the way German is spoken in Germany ( exageratedly of course).

[bednobs]

Hitler died 70 years ago and Khan dro lives in Germany now. I think that he is simply describing that things have moved on in those years and all though your Austrian friend may have thought that then Germans nowadays wouldn't make such a distinction about how people speak

[jno]

Low German is called that because it's spoken in the lower lying lands In the north. High German is basically Highland German.

[bainbrig]

I don't want this thread to disappear down a blind alley of nit-picking. To quote myself (alright, not really done, but...)

"I would rather Hitler was condemned for his crimes against humanity rather than his manner of speech. Can we agree on that?"