Do you believe in coincidence?

[sandrajo]

Do you think coincidences are just an accident, or evidence that our lives are dictated by a stronger purpose than we know?

[raysparx]

Hi jno, who really knows, was it my dads destiny not to be on those ships? you tell me, was he just lucky? were the one who died just unlucky ? or was it there destiny to die at that time ? all I know is of all the young men that joined up with him died, I am not God I can't explain, maybe I am a bit thick,thinking what I think, but that is what I believe,untill somebody explains the reason some die in infancy and others live 100 years I will believe in lifes destiny, not in silly things like "oh it is my destiny to have a coffee and cake " but life span I believe is pre-ordained as if we have a time clock in the body.

[jno]

we do have a time clock in the body... our genes programme us to start running down from our 30s (all they're interested in is reproducing themselves, so once we've had time to bear and raise children the genes lose interst in us). So we all die eventually, usually between 60 and 90. This means that, in a way, our destiny is written for us - but only for those who die of old age. Those of us who step under buses or contract Aids or go to war may well die differently, and the time of this is not foretold; it's chance, coincidence, luck.

[raysparx]

Hi jno,

ok we have time clocks agreed ? explain to me children dying for no apparant reason, if there is a God he has a lot of questions to answer, I can't understand why he would want innocent little beings to die, don't these little ones have a clock like us ? if they do it hasn't been set properly then has it !!! you still have not convinced me that what I believe is incorrect, and that is if it be under a bus, drowning,whatever it is,it happens because your time here is over,the alarm has rung,that is it, you die .

[guinnessman]

24 Hours in a day.
24 cans in a case of beer.
Coincidence?.............. I think not?

I rest my case. Thank you.

[raysparx]

lol guinnessman that is destiny for sure !!!!

[jno]

what do children die of? Going unfed, being infected with illnesses before they've developed resistance, stepping under buses... Yes, when you die your time's run out. But it's a big step to say it's because your time's run out; there's no evidence for that at all.

[raysparx]

Can't see any other reason or logic apart from destiny,you are destined for a short time here,a few years,a lot of years,or 100 years I still say it is Destiny what would you call it Fate ? same thing isn't it?, it is meant to be,you can't avoid it, money won't stop you dying, when the plug is pulled the plug is pulled so to speak, good talking jno, we will have to agree to disagree, I can't prove what I believe any more than you can, but the longer I live the more I see, the more I am sure, goodnight, Ray

[raysparx]

I take it then we now all agree,Our time on earth is pre-determined, we have an alloted time wether it be 1year or 100 years,we can't alter it,we can't run away from it,or do some still disagree ???

[Backdrifter]

ray I think I'm begining to see what you're getting at. When we think of something as emotive as children dying, or the men on board the ship your dad DIDN'T board getting killed, we want it to not be random, we think: there MUST be something behind it. Although, not wanting to be peverse for the sake of it, I actually think it'd be pretty horrible if your view of life was in fact true. I'd prefer it to be random.

That children die for no "apparent" reason e.g. cot deaths - and just because we haven't solved the question of what causes it - doesn't mean there IS no reason. For me, it's a fantastical leap from that to thinking "well it must all be predestined".

You seem to be suggesting that no matter what a person does, they have been alloted e.g. 65 years and nothing they do can change that, so even if they just stayed indoors all the time and avoided buses, avalanches, lightning strikes etc, destiny will still get them - by dropping the ceiling on them, or something, once they hit 65 years. All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not you - I'd hate to have that view of life.

Where I do KIND of agree, slightly, is that whatever the reason for your eventual demise, there is nothing you can do. I don't believe for one second you go because you have a pre-determined lifespan, but when you do go, yes that is it and there's not much point fretting about when it's going to happen - just live your life the best you can.

[raysparx]

Hi Backdrifter,

good reply, I am not some sad sod sitting here depressed,awaiting impending doom, I wish I could sit with you and explain what I mean, I came near to dying at age 16, I was seriously ill, double pheumonia, and I can remember hearing the doctor telling my mum,I would probably go that night, I was sort of in limbo,a floating feeling looking down at myself thinking god you look awful,and that is the last thing I remember of it,but within a few weeks I was back at work,I can't explain what it was, did I dream it ? you tell me , all I know is from then on I have lived my life happy, and to the full,if you read a lot of my answers you will see I have quite a good sense of humour, and I am a really happy person, accepting you have an alloted time is not miserable and gloomy, make the most of the time we do have, I have grown up boys well men 31 & 27, I tell them I love them, I kiss my wife cheerio every time we go to work, cos we never know, now do we, so make the most of your life, I do, hope this clarifies me a little, I find it hard to put down in words, I am not a well educated being,just a normal bloke, Take care , Ray

[raysparx]

Backdrifter,

Yes in effect that is what I am saying, Re; the ceing falling down, why did it fall down ? cos your time was up, if your time wasn't up you would have just left the room,

The truth of the matter is, There is no such thing as an Accident, all so called accidents are avoidable, why did the motorcyclist die on that bend ? cos he was going to fast, so if he was going slower he wouldn't have died, not an accident then is it, but if he was going slower and his time was up a lorry would have hit him anyway,as he went round the same bend !!!!

[Backdrifter]

ray, I didn't mean to imply I thought you were a gloomy ****** - rather, that I find this view of yours depressing. But that's not the reason I don't agree with it - I just have no reason to believe it.

You haven't overtly said anything to suggest you're a religious person but what you're saying is in essence in line with religious beliefs, in which it's some god or other that predetermines when a person dies, leaving bereaved friends and relatives to either agonisingly wrestle with why their god would want to kill off that child, or else to shrug and say "God decided to take that child at this time and it's not for me to question why", an approach that always strikes me as quite chilling and inhumane - as does your belief.

What is your explanation, or your belief, for why we have set lifespans and that even if we dodge one bullet there'll be another one seconds later that will get us? Because you seem to be shying away from saying "it's God."

I know I'm going to die, whether it be by illness or accident, at pretty much any time from now on - but there is nothing to suggest to me that the decision of how and when has already been taken. So, as you said to someone else, we will simply have to differ on this one.

[raysparx]

Hi backdrifter,

I am not in the least bit religious, I just believe we do have a set time, nobody has told me why young babies die, can you ? why do some people die at one month and others at 100 years,if it is not pre - determined, I have asked priests I have asked university proffessors, nobody has given me a proper believable answer, why are my views depressing ? you are here I am here, we might not be tomorrow, who knows I don't, you don't ,who does ? A God ? don't think so, I believe in Nature that is my religion, or as near as I can get to one, Take care, Ray

[Backdrifter]

Okay, fair enough - your belief isn't as part of a religious faith. Why do I find it depressing? I just find it very grim to think that the decision has already been taken on how, where and when you go. But as I said, my disbelief of that isn't based on denial - I just have no grounding, no basis, for believing it. It doesn't sound like you do either, if I may say so - you "just believe" it. Your question about why do some people die as babies, or at 100 years, presents an impasse - there are all sorts of reasons, some of which have been touched on here; babies can get ill, or be murdered or otherwise killed by other people, just as adults can. I don't see why their deaths provide some ill-defined justification for your belief. And it sounds like, committed as you are to this belief, you're not allowing any explanation to shake you from it.

On the subject of babies' deaths, another thing that's rather grim about your thesis is that when an adult abuses and batters a baby to death, your view is that the baby was due to die then anyway - but how is it predetermined that the death would be via such a savage and brutal method? And the same goes for any violent death, child or adult, be it by gunshot, road crash or ebola virus. If there is some predestined death date for us all, why don't we suddenly just pack up and die by our brain switching off?

Why can't you just accept that the baby-killer is a nasty, screwed-up person who saw the baby as an obstacle that needed getting out of the way? By denying this, your belief is a soulless reduction of everything about the human condition, positive or negative.

[raysparx]

Hi Backdrifter,

Hold on a minute, I Detest and abhor any form of assault on anybody especially children, some people are sick and should not be here, and I have no explanation for these acts, and thus no belief in a God, cos if there was one he would stop these acts, why babies are allowed to die a violent death is beyond any reasoning, I have no answers to this, who has ? Why some die by violence, Cancer,hit by Bus, I cannot answer, Again who can ? it should not happen but it does, my belief that the time of death is pre-determined, why it is in certain ways I don't know as I say I am not an intelect, maybe I am a bit dense, but I cannot shake this belief,so as we have already said we will have to agree to disagree, agreed ? bye now, take care, Ray

[Backdrifter]

Indeed - I'm never going to share your belief, and vice versa.

By the way you don't have to keep saying you're no intellectual or that you might be dense - more 'learned' minds than ours ponder these same questions - intellect isn't a factor.

[raysparx]

Hi backdrifter,

I only mean maybe I am not that bright because I do not understand and as you rightly say brighter minds than ours can't come up with solutions, so I have no chance, Enjoy your life as I shall enjoy mine, Lets hope we both have extended ones eh ????

Good luck, take care,good chatting with you, I hope we have given each other something to ponder on a little while,even if we don't agree, we did not result to personal insults, Ray