Mp Admits He Will Defy His Own Leave Constituency

[fender62]

he wont honour the referendum results of his constituents, what a mess our politics are.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071206/Brexit-News-Remainer-MP-Article-50-Theresa-May-Leave

[jim360]

TTT -- my apologies for my part in risking derailing the thread. But I'm sure you can sympathise with my point of view. Naomi is, for whatever reason, wrong about what I say and mean, and clearly it's in my interests to say so. And, from her point of view, vice versa.

[spathiphyllum]

I voted remain due to the campaigns. Mainly the hysterics over the leave vote and the giant claims (wheyy the buss).. i knew they had no idea if these would be true or not, so i voted remain. Remain is simple.. we stay as is, nothing to lie about, only to scare monger. Anty leave voter making claims that they said were 'fact' instantly gave me chills, as it's obviously a lie. No one knew what would happen.

[ToraToraTora]

ok jim thanks, not my thread, I'll leave you and Naomi to carry on.

[jim360]

I'd really rather we didn't, but the alternative is letting misinformation go unchallenged.

[naomi24]

Jim, you really are beyond belief. The only misinformation has come from you. You’ve acknowledge that you misrepresented me and now you’re behaving like some doyen of virtue! Ever considered going into politics?

Krom, // I don't understand why you are so hostile to this idea.//

I’m hostile to the idea that Leave won solely because Leavers were influenced by the Leave campaign which is what you are saying. Why is it so difficult for you to believe that the majority of the electorate are sick of the EU and want out? That didn't begin with the run up to the referendum.

[ABSpareEditor]

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[Kromovaracun]

//Leave won solely because Leavers were influenced by the Leave campaign which is what you are saying. //

No it isn't. I don't think anyone has said that. I'm saying leave won because it was able to effectively target a relatively small group of undecided voters. Which is completely reasonable in a vote that was so close.

[naomi24]

Krom, I may have misunderstood you but when you say things like //The Remain campaign was complacent and badly run, not to mention tone deaf as to why its messages weren't sticking. Vote Leave were smarter than that.// it gives the impression that the campaigns were responsible for the result – and that I really do not believe.

[jim360]

Let's be clear, Naomi: I have made no such acknowledgement. I do not believe I am misrepresenting you, but I do believe that if you think I am then you should look to your own failure to represent my views, or question my integrity, or whatever other lies or libel you've thrown in my direction.

I don't know how else to make myself clearer. You are wrong about me, you are wrong about what I say, and you are wrong about how I think.

[Kromovaracun]

Of course they weren't exclusively responsible. The pretty even split among the electorate was not caused by campaigning. But when the public is evenly divided over something then the deciding votes are effectively cast by a relatively small group of people.

I suppose in a way this relates to the point about Remain's complacency. They thought that if they got enough 'influencers' talking over the same points often enough, the public would fall in line (which is pretty much the same tactic many of the same people used in the Scottish independence vote). People like Cummings understood that this advantage was meaningless if you could just get a few more people who wouldn't usually vote to push you over the finish line.

[naomi24]

Jim, I am clear.

Krom, the Remain campaign wasn’t complacent – not at all. As I said, it had all the big guns – government, the majority of the rest of parliament, business, industry, the EU, all contributing vigorously and practically on a daily basis to Project Fear. They did everything in their power to persuade people to vote Remain. I saw no complacency. Quite the opposite, so it could be that Remain lost simply because it wasn’t what the majority of the electorate wanted. Daft idea? I think not.

[New Judge]

" Remain is simple.. we stay as is,..."

If you believe, spathi, that the EU will "stay as is" you need to examine its history and development over the last 40 years.

[shoota]

For Spath:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altiero_Spinelli
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventotene_Manifesto
Read and then consider if you still think that everything will stay the same.

[shoota]

Why is this 'creeping federalisation' not spoken about?
Why was it not the subject of the referendum?

[jno]

it was spoken about on AB, shoota, often in conjunction with words like "EUSSR" and "jackboots".

On the other hand, the question of the Irish border, which seems to have become a serious sticking point, didn't seem to cross anyone's mind.

[shoota]

I was thinking of the world outside of AB jno. I'm not a great follower of politics but I have never heard a word spoken on the subject yet to me all else is irrelevant; trade, borders, visas etc can all be sorted out by adult negotiation. The only question that needs to be asked is 'Sovereign UK' or 'Federal (Socialist) Europe' and nobody is asking it.

[jno]

I don't know where you're going to find these adult negotiatiors. In the last couple of years we've had one chief negotiator who thought we could just strike an individual trade deal with Germany, and another who was surprised to find there was a lot of trade between Dover and Calais. EU negotiators must find it difficult to deal with such profound ignorance; and yet there we are.

I think you underestimate the problem of the Irish border though, the unwarranted influence of the DUP, and the delicate matter of the Good Friday agreement.