Mp Admits He Will Defy His Own Leave Constituency

[fender62]

he wont honour the referendum results of his constituents, what a mess our politics are.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071206/Brexit-News-Remainer-MP-Article-50-Theresa-May-Leave

[naomi24]

Jim, //The Leave campaign was more effective than the Remain one//

With all that muscle behind Remain - and still behind Remain? Really? You're in denial. Truth is the electorate isn't as stupid as you'd like to think.

[Zacs-Master]

How stupid are they?

[jim360]

I do not think the electorate is stupid. Never have done, never will do. I do, however, think that there is no evidence at all that Leave would always have won -- since, you know, there is no such evidence.

All elections or electoral campaigns require effective targeting of the undecided voters. Is it really so controversial to suggest that the Leave campaign did a better job of this?

[Zacs-Master]

Naomi does. But apparently by degrees.

[tonyav]

The campaigning had nothing to do with how I voted. I voted not to join the Common Market first time round and couldn't believe my luck that I had another chance to vote leave.

[naomi24]

Jim, // Is it really so controversial to suggest that the Leave campaign did a better job of this? //

Not controversial at all. Just unrealistic.

Zacs, sour grapes.

[Zacs-Master]

No. Just facts. You wrote not AS stupid, clearly implying you thing they (we) are stupid, but not as much as Jim. Who’s now said they aren’t.

[Zacs-Master]

Think

[jim360]

The alternative is to assert, with no evidence whatsoever, that Leave would have won the day after the referendum was held. What evidence is there for this? None. It ignores the impact of electoral campaigns on turnout, on raising awareness, and on pushing a positive case -- or on pushing an overly negative one.

I am happy to accept that the result would have been close no matter what campaigning did or did not happen, but it's highly unrealistic and indeed utterly wrong to assert, with no evidence whatsoever, that the various campaigns had no effect at all on any voters whatsoever.

[naomi24]

Zacs, 'We' ... 'they' .... who?

You ramble on. I'm going to bed. Night night.

[Zacs-Master]

I don’t actually remember anything which resembled my understanding of a campaign. I saw and heard many individuals give their views, very few of whom swayed me either way, but no concerted effort by a group.

[Zacs-Master]

Come back, N. Don’t go posting highly scientific climate change questions / statements and then just *** off. Sheesh.

[vetuste_ennemi]

OK, in sum:

The electorate is not totally[i stupid.

However, elections are won or lost not by rational debate, or intelligent, even possibly informed choice, but by the party which is the more adept at solicing the support of that portion of the electorate which [i]is] stupid.

In that case scrap the expense of elections and the fiction of democracy and let each side select its champion spin doctor delegate and have a vote in a Stoke pub in front of an audience of the uneducated and and let them decide the feeble-minded.

Job done.

[vetuste_ennemi]

(italics, cut and paste, rock, paper, scissors - I don't know)

[ichkeria]

Why are so many supporters of Leave so sensitive about the fact that the Leave campaign was a much more effective one than the Remain one? Praise - genuine and non ironic praise - comes its way from the other side and it’s taken as a gross insult it seems.
Surreal.

[jim360]

Meanwhile, in 2017:

// I think her fault lies in her naivety. She assumed the British electorate were more savvy than they are. //

// I agree that she took the British public's common sense for granted. Bad move! //

[vetuste_ennemi]

//Why are so many supporters of Leave so sensitive about the fact that the Leave campaign was a much more effective one than the Remain one? Praise - genuine and non ironic praise - comes its way from the other side and it’s taken as a gross insult it seems//

"Praise", when it ascribes the referendum result to clever "campaigning" influencing unwashed thickos who couldn't get their tiny minds round the complexities of leaving the EU, might be considered an insult.

[jim360]

Well, I suppose it might, but that wasn't the point. Otherwise all forms of persuasive argument can be dismissed so.

The two quotes above are from the 2017 election, where certain commentators poured scorn on the electorate for their choice. But, setting that aside, it was certainly another case where the course of the campaign made a definite difference in the outcome. May and the Tories struggled, Corbyn did not. Result? A massive, although in this case not quite decisive, swing towards Labour from the expected result.

[vetuste_ennemi]

I don't discount the power of rhetoric; I assert that the Remain camp had far more more money and had far greater control of the various levers of "persuasion" than the divided (did you see the TV program) Leave campaign.

[steg]

///Any MP who defies his constituents should lose their seat. ///

I’m sure we have a few mp’s up here that are defying their remain constituents...
I wonder if they should also lose their seats?