Mp Admits He Will Defy His Own Leave Constituency

[fender62]

he wont honour the referendum results of his constituents, what a mess our politics are.
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1071206/Brexit-News-Remainer-MP-Article-50-Theresa-May-Leave

[fender62]

i wonder if the remain mp's have an alternative agenda and not for the for the public good, but to climb higher on the greasy political pole
to further there own nests.. political altruism, does such a notion exist.

[ichkeria]

NJ: the Brexit referendum was not won because commitee Brexiters voted “leave” nor indeed because Nigel Farage roused a few. It was win because the official campaign managed to winkle out and motivate the sort of people who would respond to a particular message and who would, crucially, not otherwise have voted. None of those people would have heard of him either. That doesn’t matter.

[New Judge]

From canvassing my own friends and acquaintances, Ikky, they had all made up their minds which way to vote as soon as the referendum was announced. I don't know of anybody who was influenced by either campaign. Politicians view the electorate as putty which can be moulded in a few weeks of campaigning on soapboxes (digital ones these days). They're not. Most people judge an issue not by what politicians have told them about it but what they experience and see of it themselves.

Quite honestly both campaigns wasted their time and money. There may have been a few waverers who made up their minds following the campaign but I suggest they were few and far between and were probably equally represented in both camps.

[jim360]

Well, perhaps you are right, NJ, but I venture to suggest that your own circle of friends is, even if we're being optimistic, not a lot when compared to 17 million. It's unlikely, then, that they have captured the full subtlety and diversity of the Brexit camp.

Now, having said that, anyone taking polls seriously would have seen that the UK has been pretty much evenly divided on the EU question for -- well, decades. So it probably is true that most people knew how they were going to vote when the opportunity arose. The point is that this neglects the other large chunk, the undecided, and that any campaign will have been targeting them. The winning side only needed to come ahead on that lot, and apparently succeeded in doing so.

Campaigns are important not because they shift loads of people's opinions but because they shift just a few -- but just a few is often all that's needed.

[Old_Geezer]

True, but in a close vote, the waverers, and those unsure if they want to vote, can be the deciding factor. They saw sense at the time. Those unhappy with, and who refuse to accept the result have been trying to "put the fear of God in them" ever since.

[Kromovaracun]

For people who are bandying around the word 'treason' or 'treachery' in response to this, I think you really need to ask yourself:

a) what you think the penalty for treason should be

b) if you seriously, honestly, in your heart think MPs like this one (or indeed Theresa May, who is often called 'Treason May' on here) should suffer that penalty.

Casually using the language of 'treachery' and 'treason' over a divisive issue like this is, frankly, playing with fire and will ultimately have extremely serious consequences.

[Khandro]

kromo; My dictionary's definition of treachery is 'The wilful betrayal of fidelity, confidence, or trust.'

She undertook to remove the UK from the EU, but her 'Brexit in name only deal', doesn't do that, it has been a wilful betrayal of the trust placed on her. She personally has never wanted to leave the EU and has used a 600 page document of obfuscation (handed to MPs only hours before they were to accept it) in the attempt to fool them, and the population at large.

[New Judge]

Yes it's often not mentioned that the document was bounced upon the Cabinet and MPs with scarcely any time to scrutinise it properly (or at all). I wonder why that was.

Frankly it's quite disgraceful to expect representatives to agree to a document that contains profound implications for the country with so little notice. At least with No Deal MPs are - or should be - aware of the implications. Presumably all part of the "My deal or nothing" approach which has been prevalent since the summer.

[Khandro]

Last-minute plea to correct her duplicity

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2019/01/14/pro-leave-tories-make-final-plea-for-full-brexit-ahead-of-crunch-vote-on-may-deal/

[ichkeria]

NJ my point was that what almost certainly swung the vote was people who would not normally have voted. If all your Brexit supporting friends were going to vote anyway they don’t count. Most of my friends were probably voting the other way. So what. Most people were not swayed by campaigns I am sure that is true but enough were to make a difference.

[naomi24]

That people were influenced by campaigns – either way – or that those who wouldn’t normally have voted decided they would can only be supposition. Like NJ, I don’t know anyone in either camp who changed their opinion. I still don’t. I think the majority knew what they wanted before the campaigning began – and stuck to it.

[ichkeria]

Of course you don’t know them. That is the whole point ;-)

[Kromovaracun]

Indeed, campaigns don't tend to target people who they don't need to. So if you were strongly decided either way, you were pretty much irrelevant as far as the main campaigns were concerned (and they were probably irrelevant to you too).

Surprising as it may seem to us opinionated types, though, there was a large number of people who made their minds up on the day or very close to the referendum. Of course, 'swing' voters don't mean very much in a contest that isn't close (no amount of campaigning would ever have won the AV referendum, alas) but in close-fought ones campaigns have a decisive influence.

[naomi24]

ichkeria, I can only assume that you don't know them either then. ;o)

[ichkeria]

No of course I don’t.

[naomi24]

Krom seems to. ;o)

[ichkeria]

Indeed kromo: Cummings’ genius was in particular to see that there was a whole constituency out there who were not likely to vote for whatever reason. He went and got them. And well done to him.

[New Judge]

"Indeed kromo: Cummings’ genius was in particular to see that there was a whole constituency out there who were not likely to vote for whatever reason. He went and got them. And well done to him."

Then why didn't the Remain camp do likewise? Many people have taken to adding the abstainers to the Remain vote (on the supposition that they were "happy with the status quo" or some such nonsense). If that were the case there was a larger audience for the Remain campaign to make their pitch to as around 38% of the electorate abstained.

[Kromovaracun]

//Then why didn't the Remain camp do likewise? //

All kinds of reasons. Complacency, outdated tactics, association with 'the establishment' (someone in my immediate family voted leave purely because Cameron said not to do so), or just downright lazy/poor leadership.

[jim360]

Indeed -- it hardly refutes the general point to claim that the Remain campaign should have tried the same. Complacency -- that played a part in Remain losing. Leave campaigners didn't have that fault, and made the most of it.