Mind Boggling.

[SparklyKid]

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-10/court-of-appeal-due-to-rule-on-gender-neutral-passports-case/

[pixie374]

Jim... anyone would accept anyone for who they are... until they start invading the spaces, sports, language etc of others. And of course, that much will never be acceptable. There is a line, do whatever you like... but don't force others to lie, and don't invade them.

[pixie374]

I am seriously beginning to wonder whether men have just run out of countries to invade... so are taking it out on us instead.
Isn't it strange that there are also women "transitioning" without causing anywhere near as much noise, fear suspicion, threats... it really just seems to prove that nobody really changes, the stereotypes still stay.

[jim360]

Earlier, when I said it was about consent rather than coercion, isn't this a similar message? I can accept that the more aggressive (minority) trans rights advocates are trying to push things too far too fast, in a way that (perhaps deliberately) is also overly combative, but I don't agree that this undermines, or should be allowed to undermine, the overall message of tolerance.

[pixie374]

Jim, it is them being intolerant, not us. Can you give me one reason why anybody should need an irreversible operation and lifelong fake hormones in order to fit in?
Or why women should shut up and have all their workd records beaten, by men?
Or why they should feel uncomfortable in their own changing rooms, because transgender people believe males are too violent to share with them, but are horrified if women feel the same?

[jim360]

I'll join Naomi in heading off, but before I go can I just add that whatever else you think of me, Pix, at least I hope that you can return to a position of trusting my motives behind what I say, even if you disagree. I don't intend to treat you or anyone else here as ignorant. I don't intend to twist facts. I don't, though, claim to get things right all the time. Maybe what you and others see as malice, then, is merely incompetence.

[pixie374]

I have every respect for you Jim, whether I agree with you or not. Night xx

[pixie374]

And have fun with naomi ;-)

[woofgang]

I am still not sure what use gender is on a passport. NJ has answered but I still genuinely don't see that it is of much use.

[pixie374]

Absolutely none, woof. It has never been needed or asked for. It is just a few people who want it recorded for validation.
The only things necessary are identifiers, such as name, sex, nationality etc. All of which can be proven.