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Land Of The Free......think We've Got Problems?
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700 dead since the Texas School in 43 of the 50 states. Is the US broken beyond repair?
700 dead since the Texas School in 43 of the 50 states. Is the US broken beyond repair?
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The Australians dont appear to have the same psyche that the Americans do. That is what needs understanding otherwise they will simply use whatever weapon they have to hand. Why cant you understand that?
I dont have a solution, said that many times. But then I dont bash the Yanks continually for their guns laws either.
I dont have a solution, said that many times. But then I dont bash the Yanks continually for their guns laws either.
When Clannad was a regular contributor to this forum, the question of gun ownership/regulation arose, probably after a similar atrocity as the Texan School shooting.
As he was perceived as an intelligent, considerate contributor, this seemed at variance with his determination to own a variety of guns, etc.
One thing that he said which sticks with me and may go some way to explaining the American psyche is that he saw it as his duty and his duty, only, to protect his family. This duty was not devolved to any law-enforcement agencies, etc. it was his right and responsibility to take care of his loved ones.
I don't think 'we' think like that. Protecting our loved ones is a nebulous concept; of course, we wish to protect them but whilst we say it, I'm not sure any of us have a firm idea of what shape and form that protection would take. If we had trouble protecting our families we would ask the 'law' to step in and take appropriate action on our behalf.
It seems that many Americans would be prepared to shoot first and then answer questions and deal with the paperwork afterwards....
As he was perceived as an intelligent, considerate contributor, this seemed at variance with his determination to own a variety of guns, etc.
One thing that he said which sticks with me and may go some way to explaining the American psyche is that he saw it as his duty and his duty, only, to protect his family. This duty was not devolved to any law-enforcement agencies, etc. it was his right and responsibility to take care of his loved ones.
I don't think 'we' think like that. Protecting our loved ones is a nebulous concept; of course, we wish to protect them but whilst we say it, I'm not sure any of us have a firm idea of what shape and form that protection would take. If we had trouble protecting our families we would ask the 'law' to step in and take appropriate action on our behalf.
It seems that many Americans would be prepared to shoot first and then answer questions and deal with the paperwork afterwards....
I don't think the ability to buy a gun is the problem, it is the age and mentality of the person and the type of gun - I doubt even if criminals were to keep their guns that there would be the indiscriminate mass shootings on the scale we have seen recently. Make it a minimum age for a licence to hold a gun and maybe something like a doctor's certificate to say they are mentally stable and stop the purchase of 'army' type weapons which seem to be freely available.
youngmafbog
//The Australians dont appear to have the same psyche that the Americans do. That is what needs understanding otherwise they will simply use whatever weapon they have to hand. Why cant you understand that?
I dont have a solution, said that many times. But then I dont bash the Yanks continually for their guns laws either.//
So what do you suggest? Legislation or an army of psychiatrists to address and change the American psyche?
If you can’t offer a solution then why berate others?
As for ‘continually bashing Yanks for their gun laws’ you need to point out who that is addressed to because this is the first time I’ve ever posted on a thread about gun laws in the US.
Might help if you at least attempt to conjure up an idea of your own instead of whinging but offering no solution?
//The Australians dont appear to have the same psyche that the Americans do. That is what needs understanding otherwise they will simply use whatever weapon they have to hand. Why cant you understand that?
I dont have a solution, said that many times. But then I dont bash the Yanks continually for their guns laws either.//
So what do you suggest? Legislation or an army of psychiatrists to address and change the American psyche?
If you can’t offer a solution then why berate others?
As for ‘continually bashing Yanks for their gun laws’ you need to point out who that is addressed to because this is the first time I’ve ever posted on a thread about gun laws in the US.
Might help if you at least attempt to conjure up an idea of your own instead of whinging but offering no solution?
The actor Matthew McConaughey is from Uvalde, Texas, scene of the latest massacre. He spoke at the White House press briefing yesterday, as follows, and it seems like a sensible approach to me ...
Look, we heard from ... we heard from so many people, all right. Families of the deceased, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, Texas Rangers, hunters, border patrol, and responsible gun owners who won't give up their Second Amendment right to bear arms, and you know what they all said? We want secure and safe schools and we want gun laws that won't make it so easy for the bad guys to get these damn guns. So, we know what's on the table.
We need to invest in mental health care. We need safer schools. We need to restrain sensationalized media coverage. We need to restore our family values. We need to restore our American values.
And we need responsible gun ownership, responsible gun ownership. We need background checks. We need to raise the minimum age to purchase an AR-15 rifle to 21. We need a waiting period for those rifles. We need red flag laws and consequences for those who abuse them.
These are reasonable, practical, tactical regulations to our nation, states, communities, schools, and homes. Responsible gun owners are fed up with the Second Amendment being abused and hijacked by some deranged individuals. These regulations are not a step back. They are a step forward for a civil society and, and the Second Amendment.
Look, is this a cure all? Hell no. But people are hurting, families are, parents are. And look, as-- as divided as our country is, this gun responsibility issue is one that we agree on more than we don't. It really is.
Look, this should be a nonpartisan issue. This should not be a partisan issue. There is not a Democratic or Republican value in one single act of these shooters. It's not.
But people in power have failed to act. So, we're asking you, and I'm asking you, will you please ask yourselves, can both sides rise above? Can both sides see beyond the political problem at hand and admit that we have a life preservation problem on our hands?
Because we got a chance right now to reach for and to grasp a higher ground, above our political affiliations. A chance to make a choice that does more than protect your party, a chance to make a choice that protects our country now and for the next generation. We've got to take a sober, humble, and honest look in the mirror and rebrand ourselves based on what we truly value, what we truly value.
We've got to get some real courage and honor our immortal obligations instead of our party affiliations. Enough with the counterpunching. Enough with the invalidation of the other side.
Let's come to the common table that represents the American people. Find a middle ground, the place where most of us Americans live anyway, especially on this issue. Because I promise you, America, you and me, we are not as divided as we are being told we are. No.
Look, we heard from ... we heard from so many people, all right. Families of the deceased, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, Texas Rangers, hunters, border patrol, and responsible gun owners who won't give up their Second Amendment right to bear arms, and you know what they all said? We want secure and safe schools and we want gun laws that won't make it so easy for the bad guys to get these damn guns. So, we know what's on the table.
We need to invest in mental health care. We need safer schools. We need to restrain sensationalized media coverage. We need to restore our family values. We need to restore our American values.
And we need responsible gun ownership, responsible gun ownership. We need background checks. We need to raise the minimum age to purchase an AR-15 rifle to 21. We need a waiting period for those rifles. We need red flag laws and consequences for those who abuse them.
These are reasonable, practical, tactical regulations to our nation, states, communities, schools, and homes. Responsible gun owners are fed up with the Second Amendment being abused and hijacked by some deranged individuals. These regulations are not a step back. They are a step forward for a civil society and, and the Second Amendment.
Look, is this a cure all? Hell no. But people are hurting, families are, parents are. And look, as-- as divided as our country is, this gun responsibility issue is one that we agree on more than we don't. It really is.
Look, this should be a nonpartisan issue. This should not be a partisan issue. There is not a Democratic or Republican value in one single act of these shooters. It's not.
But people in power have failed to act. So, we're asking you, and I'm asking you, will you please ask yourselves, can both sides rise above? Can both sides see beyond the political problem at hand and admit that we have a life preservation problem on our hands?
Because we got a chance right now to reach for and to grasp a higher ground, above our political affiliations. A chance to make a choice that does more than protect your party, a chance to make a choice that protects our country now and for the next generation. We've got to take a sober, humble, and honest look in the mirror and rebrand ourselves based on what we truly value, what we truly value.
We've got to get some real courage and honor our immortal obligations instead of our party affiliations. Enough with the counterpunching. Enough with the invalidation of the other side.
Let's come to the common table that represents the American people. Find a middle ground, the place where most of us Americans live anyway, especially on this issue. Because I promise you, America, you and me, we are not as divided as we are being told we are. No.
From Wikipedia.
Under federal government co-ordination, all states and territories of Australia restricted the legal ownership and use of self-loading rifles, self-loading shotguns, and tightened controls on their legal use by recreational shooters. The government initiated a mandatory "buy-back" scheme with the owners paid according to a table of valuations. Some 643,000 firearms were handed in at a cost of $350 million which was funded by a temporary increase in the Medicare levy which raised $500 million.
So as I said, not going to happen over night, may take 20 years in the US but with the right will, it can be done.
That said, they had their chance after Sandy Hook but nothing changed so I won’t hold my breath.
Under federal government co-ordination, all states and territories of Australia restricted the legal ownership and use of self-loading rifles, self-loading shotguns, and tightened controls on their legal use by recreational shooters. The government initiated a mandatory "buy-back" scheme with the owners paid according to a table of valuations. Some 643,000 firearms were handed in at a cost of $350 million which was funded by a temporary increase in the Medicare levy which raised $500 million.
So as I said, not going to happen over night, may take 20 years in the US but with the right will, it can be done.
That said, they had their chance after Sandy Hook but nothing changed so I won’t hold my breath.
youngmafbog
//You are comparing apples and pears.
You still dont understand that Americans and Australians are two totally differently thinking people (thank god) despite many people posting why above.
What works for one will not work for the other.//
It’s actually apples and oranges but whatever.
Yes, Australians and Americans are different but Australians have shown that their solution worked.
Without a suggestion of your own, how can you decide that one tried, trusted and proven method won’t work elsewhere unless it’s given a go?
How do you think democracy was first spread?
//You are comparing apples and pears.
You still dont understand that Americans and Australians are two totally differently thinking people (thank god) despite many people posting why above.
What works for one will not work for the other.//
It’s actually apples and oranges but whatever.
Yes, Australians and Americans are different but Australians have shown that their solution worked.
Without a suggestion of your own, how can you decide that one tried, trusted and proven method won’t work elsewhere unless it’s given a go?
How do you think democracy was first spread?
'Without a suggestion of your own, how can you decide that one tried, trusted and proven method won’t work elsewhere'
Because there are an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US and the social / medical systems will never stop the mentally unstable from obtaining one, especially those who've never shown any previous instability.
Because there are an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US and the social / medical systems will never stop the mentally unstable from obtaining one, especially those who've never shown any previous instability.
Zacs-Master
//'Without a suggestion of your own, how can you decide that one tried, trusted and proven method won’t work elsewhere'
Because there are an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US and the social / medical systems will never stop the mentally unstable from obtaining one, especially those who've never shown any previous instability.//
So if we’re going to dismiss every suggestion out of hand why is it even a thread for discussion?
//'Without a suggestion of your own, how can you decide that one tried, trusted and proven method won’t work elsewhere'
Because there are an estimated 393 million guns in private ownership in the US and the social / medical systems will never stop the mentally unstable from obtaining one, especially those who've never shown any previous instability.//
So if we’re going to dismiss every suggestion out of hand why is it even a thread for discussion?
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