Trouble In Paradise.....?

[ToraToraTora]

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-suspend-seven-mps-who-rebelled-over-two-child-benefit-cap-13183879

TBF I agree with Sir Beer, we should not be encouraging more saucepans. The 2 child cap is fine.

[Untitled]

"There are more than 10 million people of working age not working. Many of them have a reason to be in that position but many of them have not."

 

how many are stay at home parents?

how many are students?

how many are long term sick?

how many have opted to retire early because they have private pensions or other wealth?

how many are carers? 

these are things you should know. the idea that the uk has a mountain of untapped labour isn't true. 

 

"The problem of an “ageing population” that you mention cannot be solved by simply growing the overall population"

why is "ageing population" in squarequotes? it is a fact. 

i'm not talking about overall population. i'm talking about increasing the working-age population. obviously importing more old people would make it worse. 

"Countries do not become "impoverished" if they don't have a continually increasing population"

they do and they will if the proportion of elderly people continues to grow in relation to the young. older populations are more expensive and it is the working age population who shoulders the cost. this is not a situation that has happened before.

i am not sure what kind of "economic model" you have in mind newjudge which could get around this problem but i would be very interested to hear about it. in the meantime the options are 

a) import labour - the easy option which we currently use

b) encourage people to have families including by making housing cheaper and subsidising desired/high skill education (apprenticeships, degrees, whatever... details don't matter atm). 

those are the options. i do not object to people wanting less immigration but they really do need to be realistic about what that means! a low immigration economy will require higher taxes and state intervention and that is a fact. this is something i would support!

[Untitled]

and yes i agree that many degrees are not very useful. 

[davebro3]

//this is not a situation that has happened before.//

No it hasn't & it is because the world population is increasing inexorably & will continue to do so unless/until that trend is reversed. I'm not holding my breath.

[newmodarmy]

Untitled- you refer to the ageing population (which is happening, despite the effects of Covid). Yet several times you have told us about huge numbers of  excess deaths attributable tp austerity since 2010. Do you not see a contradiction?

If you aren't aware that there's a section of si=ociety who prefer to stay at home and let the state look after them rather than go out and find a job, then you live a very sheltered life, maybe in academia or in a middle class/hipster environment.  There's whole estates I know where working is the exception rather than the rule- for some it's a lifestyle choice; for others it's a habit that's hard to break.

[Deskdiary]

4.08pm.

 

I can't decide whether that's a genius piece of satire or absolute batsiht crazy nonsense. Given who wrote it I suspect the latter.

 

Let me lob in something...how many of those who are fit to work but have decided their source of income should be from the taxpayer? Inevitably when their (many) offspring see their sponging parents (usually parent) getting away with it, they will also do it. Monkey see monkey do. There are generations of people who have not contributed a brass farthing to the economy, but they expect "their" money. It's not "their" money, it's my money and they are parasites.

 

We absolutely should look after people who cannot look after themselves, but fit people who can work but won't work, frankly I couldn't give a cuss if they starved to death.

[Untitled]

what is your problem with what i wrote deskdiary? the 10 million figure newjudge provides refers to people the ONS measures as "economically inactive"... it includes all of those sub groups that i mentioned including about 2 million people who choose to retire early... perhaps you ought to read more about the problem before assuming your opinion to be the only permissible one

[Untitled]

"Yet several times you have told us about huge numbers of  excess deaths attributable tp austerity since 2010. Do you not see a contradiction?"

no... perhaps you would care to explain what you think it is. 

[Rosetta]

Those that retire early are usually the ones who have enough dosh to fund themselves so are no more a drain on the public purse than Joe Average

[Deskdiary]

My problem, untitled, is because you cherry pick to suit your argument. You're not alone, Hymie is the worst, but you ain't far behind. 

[Untitled]

what have i cherry picked in your opinion?

[Old_Geezer]

If the government had the common sense to reduce child benefit to one child (preferably means tested) then might it encourage those sections of the population, that traditionally fail to manage their family size sensibly, to apply some logic and have no more offspring that they can actually afford ? The world clearly needs a shrinking human population not a continually growing one. Most, if not all, nations need the same.

[gulliver1]

I think the limit should be two children. Can you just imagine what it would be like for a couple having five saucepan lids like TTT.