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christians and christmas!
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why do religious people celebrate a pagan festival like christmas and then complain that "christ has been taken out of christmas"? For goodness sakes, christ was never in christmas to begin with.It's pagan from beggining to end.Everything from xmas trees to xmas crackers.Just where in the bible does it say celebrate the birth of jesus anyway?
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theland !!
The comment you made about 'i hate religion' , and 'i am christian'. This is an example of the exact problem we have in the world at the moment with religion. You have totally bi passed any other religion and basically stated that there is only one faith and why is there any need for anything else. Imagine another person in this thread that said that about another religion !! All of a sudden we have an argument, then a fight, then put a gun in your hand and we have a war. Extreme i know, but you seem what i mean. Ill tell you what - become an atheist. Live a life of logic and reason. I guarantee you will never have an arguement, a fight or a war with another atheist - ever !!!
The comment you made about 'i hate religion' , and 'i am christian'. This is an example of the exact problem we have in the world at the moment with religion. You have totally bi passed any other religion and basically stated that there is only one faith and why is there any need for anything else. Imagine another person in this thread that said that about another religion !! All of a sudden we have an argument, then a fight, then put a gun in your hand and we have a war. Extreme i know, but you seem what i mean. Ill tell you what - become an atheist. Live a life of logic and reason. I guarantee you will never have an arguement, a fight or a war with another atheist - ever !!!
to say Christmas is a pagan festival on the grounds that pagans once celebrated the solstice at the same time is like saying a house is a hotel because that's what it was used for a couple of millennia ago. Things change. Christians are celebrating the birth of Christ, no matter what their distant ancestors did. They are not, as far as I can see, doing so under any compulsion, and most of them aren't even as ignorant as you imagine them: the old use of midwinter is pretty widely known. So if they wish to protest at the commercialisation of a religious festival, why not? You can go out and buy expensive gifts, you can go to church, or you can go out with some druids and make merry with the holly and the ivy if you want. Or there's always the telly.
You can't get away with that jno
The undercurrents of the old festivals have never gone away!
Where was the Holly and Mistletoe in Bethlehem? Did they have a green wreath of evergreens on the door?
You might have a case if all this mid-winter feasting and celebration had been re-invented like the druids at stonehenge on midsummer (6 months too late I'd say - but that's another thread), but despite all the best efforts of the Christian church Christmas has never fully replaced the old celebrations.
Going around claiming that we're all forgetting 'the true meaning of Christmas' or talking about 'the first Christmas' is just another salvo in a 2,000 year struggle for control of the holiday.
The undercurrents of the old festivals have never gone away!
Where was the Holly and Mistletoe in Bethlehem? Did they have a green wreath of evergreens on the door?
You might have a case if all this mid-winter feasting and celebration had been re-invented like the druids at stonehenge on midsummer (6 months too late I'd say - but that's another thread), but despite all the best efforts of the Christian church Christmas has never fully replaced the old celebrations.
Going around claiming that we're all forgetting 'the true meaning of Christmas' or talking about 'the first Christmas' is just another salvo in a 2,000 year struggle for control of the holiday.
the following is cut and pasted from
http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm (clanad take note...some of us are honest eneough NOT to pass the writings of others off as "my opinion")
"Mithra, by the way, was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians [magi]. Mithra raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?"
put MITHRA back into chrismas!
http://www.locksley.com/6696/xmas.htm (clanad take note...some of us are honest eneough NOT to pass the writings of others off as "my opinion")
"Mithra, by the way, was born on December 25, of a virgin. His birth was witnessed by shepherds and magicians [magi]. Mithra raised the dead and healed the sick and cast out demons. He returned to heaven at the spring equinox and before doing so had a last supper with his 12 disciples (representing the 12 signs of the zodiac), eating mizd, a piece of bread marked with a cross (an almost universal symbol of the sun). Any of that sound familiar?"
put MITHRA back into chrismas!
all the accoutrements of midwinter festivities are still there, jake, it's true... all except the midwinter festivities themselves. Apart from druids, nobody celebrates the seasons any more, and considering it still seems to be about 10 degrees outside and trees are in blossom in my street, no wonder. Nobody out there - in the churches, in the malls, wherever - is celebrating winter. They're celebrating Christ's birthday. Ask them if you don't believe me.
guyrkp - Yes, I am a Christian and I hate religion. Why not? What is religion except man made ceremonies and man made traditons. These have been used to enslave peoples minds, yes I hate to see people being misled and enslaved. Don't you?
Wars fought in the name of "Christianity" have been fought, like the Crusades, under the inspiration and leadership of the Roman Catholic church, which claims to be Christian, but is in fact a perversion, a cult, giving as much if not more weight to its tradions, as to scripture, which it adds to, and subtracts from.
Careful what you mean when you say "Christian".
Wars fought in the name of "Christianity" have been fought, like the Crusades, under the inspiration and leadership of the Roman Catholic church, which claims to be Christian, but is in fact a perversion, a cult, giving as much if not more weight to its tradions, as to scripture, which it adds to, and subtracts from.
Careful what you mean when you say "Christian".
Wizard69 - Yes, I agree with you that all of the accoutrements of Xmashave origins other than Biblical Christianity. Yes, looked at the link, and of course what you say is confirmed there.
In fact, as time goes on, we seem to add more and more "extras" to the "traditional" Xmas. For a long time, Jesus has been no more than just another bauble to make us feel "Christamassy." How many people go to church at Xmas just to get the "traditional feeling?" What you say about all of these traditions are entirely true.
In fact, as time goes on, we seem to add more and more "extras" to the "traditional" Xmas. For a long time, Jesus has been no more than just another bauble to make us feel "Christamassy." How many people go to church at Xmas just to get the "traditional feeling?" What you say about all of these traditions are entirely true.
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