political freedoms?

[el duerino]

a friend of my dads, a police officer, has been informed he is not allowed to joint or be associated with the British National party. In my opinion this is an infringement of his civil rights - the BNP is a legitimate political party at this point in time. What next? so many slippery sloped to go down from here. Not that he or I etc would consider joining, its the principle. opinions?

[cruthinboy]

"BNP tells it's members to break the law" - which laws are these? Will members of the Islamic Party of Britain be banned? How about members of pro-Zionist organisations? How about policemen who think "dole scroungers"/"fat cat bosses"/"trade unionists"/"feninists" are to blame for the state of the nation? Lots of people blame lots of other people for things, but as far as I'm aware probationary peelers are not grilled about their personal scapegoats.

[Oneeyedvic]

Alej, I don' think I am missing the point : "The BNP is a racist party that causes damage and divide within comunities". Well, I am certainly not New Labour, and I and quite a few people I know have felt that TOny Blair has caused a great deal of damage to this country, and you only have to look at the news in the last few weeks to show that there is a divide betweenn "town and country" or "upper & lower" classes. So at what point do you stop? I may find it distasteful that a man is homosexual (and I think that more than 50% of men would find it distasteful) - does this mean that someone who is gay should not be involved in the teaching of young impressionable minds? You see my point - it is not breaking the law to support the BNP - i have been on their website and can honestly say that I do agree with some of their policies - just as I agree with a lot of policies from ALL the political parties. I may feel it to be a lack of judgement to vote for them, but surely you can be a member and not be racist. I agree with more of their policies than I disagree with. But I obviously feel that it is a lack of judgement to vote for anyone who I didn;t vote for. I really don't think that people are not entitled to do a job because of their PRIVATE thoughts

[Oneeyedvic]

Sorry, having said that, if they are racist and can not do their job apolitically and unbiastly, they should be sacked (obviously).

[cruthinboy]

Oneeyedvic,: in fact the BNP, like "extremist" factions of whatever kind trying to enter the mainstream, are being criticised by the more unreconstructed groups for not being extreme enough!!! You may recall their Euro broadcast this year featured a Hindu relating his family's suffering at the time of partition in India.

[PaulYukochan]

THen again, some members of certain organisations need to be neutral/independent in order to fulfill their roles. Intelligence agencies are like this.maybe the police are included.

[PaulYukochan]

Intelligence agencies allow NO political membership. Even to Lib dems or greens!

[Oneeyedvic]

I'm not sure if people are missing the point here. NO ONE is independent - you would not be a person if you had no views on something. You may have strong views on somethings and weaker views / changeable views on other things. Some of your thoughts may be legal, some may not. You may flout the law (most people speed), protest against the law (demo against the war) or join an organisation that brings like minded people together (chess club or BNP). Just because you join these societies / clubs / parties, does not mean that you beleive in everything they do. Do people think what they do in their private time should affect their careers. I certainly don't. I have been on the BNP website, and with the exception of forced repatriation, I can honestly say that I do not disagree with MOST of the rest of their manifesto. I have been on the LibDem web site and agree with less of their things. In the next election though I will more than likely vote LibDem. We then get onto should policemen be able to vote. If so, can they vote for the BNP. By voting for them surely the same arguments can be used as for joining their party. People are individual, the BNP is not a sensible party (in my opinion) but EVERYONE should have the right to vote for them if they so wish.

[jimmer]

ok, one last time. The BNP are racist thugs. Their stated aim as a party is to rid the UK of people of colour. Recent (i.e. last two months) comments by their leader include an attack on islam almost directly saying that all muslims are rapists and terrorists. two of their members recently arrested after admitting on camera to crimes involving repeatedly stamping on a persons head. That's why police have been banned from joining the BNP. I don't like your reasoning about banning the police from being part of an islamic party. in what way does being in an islamic political party prevent a policeman from doing his job? and as for the bit by vic " I have been on the LibDem web site and agree with less of their things. In the next election though I will more than likely vote LibDem". What are you on about. you agree with more BNP policies than libdem but your going to vote libdem anyway. eh? The BNP exist to spread racism. thats it, thats what they stand for. People who join the BNP are racists. The police have a poor reputation and to their credit they are trying to address the issue. The actions of the cheif police officers must also be legal or it could be challenged by the BNP and the decision could be overturned. that's what democracy means. You can vote for who you want, its private; you can say what you want in private; you can't represent a police force in the UK if you are demonstrably against a portion of the population you need to serve. jim

[Donkey]

jim your quote 'The BNP are racist thugs' think you either read to many papers or believe everything you see on telly cause you dont have a clue mate.

[aisha zahid]

I imagine the reasoning behind this is to prevent a conflict of interest. If the officer in question has been associated with the BNP, it could be argued that the officer no longer has an objective view when it come to enforcing the law. This is not to say that an officer in such a sitation will arrest any member of a minority group, mearily that in instances where it is necessary the officers proffessional judgement will not be called into question. Also, although a legitimate political party the BNP does have extreme views with regard to moniority groups. Suely no-one can claim that this party does not insight some degree of racial hatred.

[cruthinboy]

"Conflict of interest" - exactly my point about peiople who are members of A Muslim organisation, a Zionist organisation or whatever. What about a member of the SWP/ANL who joins the police and is a called to investigate a BNP member who has been assaulted by a group of blacks/Asians - given that they support violence against people they deem "Nazis", could they be impartial. Muslim copper called to investigate someone who's been spraypaimting "Allah's a c****" on walls" - impartial? Quite possibly, but possibly not.

[Oneeyedvic]

I can't believe I am in agreement with cruitinboy. Jim, I have to be honest, the world is not black & white (if you excuse the pun). No not everybody who joins/votes for the BNP are racist thugs. The BNP is not a racist organisation in the same way that Sinn Fein is not a terrorist organisation. Tthe BNP is a legitimate political party with councellors democratically elected in certain councils. My point about voting was that very few people are going to agree with ALL the points raised by a political party. I am anti Europe whereas the Libdem are pro Europe. I am also Asian, and so although I do beleive in a lot of the BNP's thoughts, I could not vote for them as one of their main stances is involuntary repatriation. Although the Tories are anti Europe, I do not beleive in some of their other policies. This was my point. "you can't represent a police force in the UK if you are demonstrably against a portion of the population you need to serve." - I am sorry, but this is ridiculous - do you think that every policeman in this country agrees with every single law. Do you think they all agree with speeding, with homosexual behaviour at 16, with the ban of fox hunting, etc etc. If a policeman is aginst fox hunting and say joins an antifoxhunting society, is he not allowed to serve in the country side? He is surely alienating himself from some people. As I said before, stop people joining a DEMOCRATIC & LEGAL society and where do you draw the line. Welcome to Blair's Britain.

[el duerino]

couldnt have put it any better OEV. Sad times which are only going to get worse I fear.

[rick7]

WHY should the POLICE or any other STATE Civil Service organisation be manufactured to suit the tastes of any particular political party which happens to hold the reins of power at any particular point in time.

Dont call me naive, but I still think we live in a free society of sorts. If there are abuses of power these should be rectified and put into the light of day.

Do you think this is not possible. Or have we gone too far in to the night?

Advise me, because I think we can still turn the mess around

 

[clairus99]

regardless of anyone's beliefs on the bnp - one of the reasons the UK is great is because we are (or at least should be) free to express our views without fear of retribution.  Or have I been watching too much American TV......

I have to admit I considered joining them at one stage, almost being convinced that they weren't racist but in fact support Britain first, regardless of the race of its citizens.  How stupid I felt to find out I was wrong.

I saw a show on Channel 4 about 6 months ago where an Asian bloke in a turban did a programme on racism in the North West and Scotland (he lived in Glasgow).  I thought at first, oh of course he is out to make all white people look bad, but in fact I thought it was very honest and interesting.  He 'interviewed' this bnp representative who wouldnt even look at him, and declined the invitation of a curry for lunch because he didnt eat foreign food.  what a twit (using polite language here!).  This was after I poured over their website and saw what they thought of gay people.  I'm not gay but I don't hate people for being gay for god's sake.  Petty, stupid and pointless.  They lost me there and then and for good!

[richarddavey]

Hi el duerino I was interested to read about your dad's friend's dilemma re political activity. Interesting area - so long as the policies he supports are not actually against the law then I suppose he could argue it is an infringement of his civil rights - unless there is a catch all clause in his contract which prevents him from being associated with any political party or activity. I suspect it will be couched in terms such as "not permitted to be associated with any political party or movement which might bring the name of the Police into disrepute.." Anyway it is interesting area - I work for BBC tv current affairs - and would like to talk to him on a confidential basis if he's interested.