MMR jab - safe?

[eggman]

As the father of a three week old baby boy, James, I find myself in an impossible dilemma as to whether or not I should sanction his being given an MMR jab.  According to my local health centre, the risks are extremely marginal; but then that is what they said about thalidomide, of course.  Both of my other children have had the jab and they haven't demonstrated any tendencies towards the autism with which MMR is associated, but there is always that nagging doubt that - God forbid - we might not be so fortunate this time around.  What does anyone think? 

[enigma]

Part 1 : Hi Eggman. This is indeed a worry which is shared by millions of parents the length and breadth of the country and ultimately , it is a very personal choice. I am the mother of two young children - both of whom were immunised - and I am due my third baby in 3 1/2 weeks so will be faced with this decision again. Personally , I will choose to immunise my child with the MMR vaccination and have absolutely no hesitation in doing so. When my eldest daughter was due her MMR , the scare about it had just broke in the media and parents were very distressed - my hubby and I included - because no-one really knew for certain whether or not we would be putting our children in a high risk category for developing Autism. My hubby and I had a lengthy chat with our Health Visitor and GP who alleviated our concerns about possible side effects of the vaccination. I guess what you have to consider is whether or not the risk outweighs possible damage to your child if you choose not to opt for the vaccination. Could you really live with yourself for example if you chose not to immunise and your child suffered damage to his/her eyesight , hearing etc as a direct result of that action ? The link to Autism through immunisation is a very minimal risk compared to the high risk of the child becoming deaf , blind or even resulting in a fatality due to the child contracting  Measles , Mumps or Rubella and not having protection from immunisation.

[enigma]

Part 2 : Did you see the Dispatches programme on channel 4 last week about the MMR scare ? It mentioned a doctor (Wakefield I believe) who broke the scare to the media regarding the concerns with the 3 in 1 vaccination and who recommended that parents shelled out for the three separate vaccinations which were deemed to be 'safer' than the 3 in 1. It turned out that he had patented the rights to the 3 separate vaccinations before he broke the news of his concerns for the 3 in 1 and it suggested that he caused scaremongering purely to profiteer. There was no evidence in his research to suggest that the 3 separate vaccinations were safer , nor that there was any direct link to Autism as a result of vaccination. It also featured a couple who had originally believed that their child was Autistic as a direct result of being vaccinated (With the 3 in 1) but who later admitted that on reflection , there seemed to be early signs there to show that this was already present in the child. The same doctor in this programme astonishingly also claimed on the internet to be able to 'cure' Autism and was flogging various drugs to desperate parents who wanted to help their kids. Experts said that the drugs would do nothing for the kids. He was tracked down to a seminar in America where of course he refused to give any comment and actually fled from the cameras and questions. Leading experts said that they could find no direct links between the MMR vaccination and Autism and it was also heartbreaking to watch a couple in this programme whose child had died in agony through not having been vaccinated. Ultimately the choice is yours. Please do voice your concerns with your your Health Visitor and GP again and I for one respect you in whatever you decide because it is not an easy choice to make any you have to live with whatever you decide. To reiterate what I said earlier , I will immunise my kids every time as the lesser of two evils. Good luck in whatever you decide x

[enigma]

It was a Doctor Wakefield and i've found you a link to the Dispatches programme : MMR - What they didn't tell you. If you go to www.channel4.com/health/microsites/M/mmr you will be able to get the facts about the MMR scare and hopefully it will help you to make an informed choice.

[Philtaz]

My children had it without hesitation.  I found it a simple choice.  Take the miniscule risk(which has still never been proven) of my children developing autism or watching them suffer(even die, worst case scenario) from measles, mumps or rubella.

[Hgrove]

There is something called the precautionary principle which means that the fact that there is no scientific proof of something does not mean it is definitely safe and you should not take precautions against it.  I gave it some thought but on the balance of probabilies I had my child (now nearly 6) vaccinated without any problems.

[eggman]

Hi there enigma, it's me again (eggman);  many thanks for your advice and your support, which is genuinely much appreciated.  Of course, you're absolutely right about MMR and we will be immunising James as soon as possible - the potential alternatives are just too invidious even to contemplate. 

I was very interested in said Dr Wakefield, who on the available evidence seems to have initiated a sustained campaign of at best obfuscation and at worst downright deceit on the part of government.  This, in essence, is what makes me most uneasy about the whole affair;  if MMR is indeed safe - which, in the vast majority of cases, it almost certainly is - then why can't government with a stroke of the pen alleviate the fears of millions of  anxious parents nationwide?

 

Yours with a heavy heart, eggman xx.

[eggman]

Thanks for answering, Philtaz and Hgrove - as I have already said to enigma, I will be immunising James as soon as possible.

Kind regards, eggman

 

[morg_monster]

Eggman you say why can't the government just wipe out the parents' fears... if only! I think there is a real culture of mistrust in this country when it comes to figures of authority such as the government and even scientists and 'experts'.  The government have helped fund some HUGE studies which have shown no link, they have advertising campaigns, I personally think they are trying their best but there are some people that sadly just cannot trust all this, and perhaps think that the government are 'out to get them'.  I think they forget that MPs and the PM are people too with their own families - as if they would ever put all the children in this country at undue risk!

[eggman]

Thanks, morg monster;  I agree entirely that there is indeed a culture of mistrust in this country and that is very often wholly without foundation.  Having said that much, the plain fact remains that government has consistently - and some might even say perversely - refused adamantly to publish the findings of those studies to which you refer.  This, surely, cannot be good for democracy in general or parents of newborn children in particular.

Regards, eggman

[kags]

Hi eggman - I think decisions about immunisations are among the hardest parents have to take, and you have to go with your gut feeling. I have a daughter who was diagnosed autistic during the height of the MMR scare, so I have thought a lot about this subject! On a rational, logical, and calm level I do not believe there is any proven link with autism, but when it came to taking my daughter, and her older brother for their MMR boosters, I just couldn't do it. I discussed it with my GP and my daughter's paediatrician, and they both understood my why I felt this way and supported me. Both children have good immunity from their initial jabs, and we will consider the situation again, especially for my daughter, when they are older. It is bewildering when you are told your child has autism, and it is only natural to look for causes - the MMR jab is the "usual suspect" because the characteristics of autism start appearing at about the same time. Go with your instincts eggman, I am sure you will do whatever is best for James, and after all that's all we can do as parents! 

[eggman]

Thanks, kags - will do!

[Diablod666]

if the worst happens and james develops autism, then maybe you can take comfort in that he could have suffered much worse had he not had the jab and caught measles, mumphs or reubella.on the flip side, you can also take comfort if he doesn't get the jab and catches measles, mumphs or reubella, then maybe he would have had a worse, depressing life as an autistic child. but i'm sure none of these things will happen ;o)

[Kay]

All my 4 had the MMR.  My youngest son has Asperger Syndrome (Mild form) he was deprived of oxygen at birth. Autism is an age old ailment unlike the MMR. My son belongs to a social club for Aspergers,every one of these members experienced oxygen problems at birth. I would'nt hesitate vaccinating my lot again if need be.

[hughcool]

No one has mentioned this but you all seem to be sensibly taking it for granted. Without the jab we would be simply adding to the far greater general risk of a mumps epidemic. Cases of this are in fact rising and that is a very serious and real danger against the highly dubious and poorly evidence link with autism or AS.

On that point I am fascinated by the AS oxygen link. Our boy too has AS and I watched as he struggled through a diificult birth and the paediatrician tried to get him 'started up'  as he turned blue. The paediatrician was like an airline pilot keeping calm and giving nothing away but it was clear that it was a close thing. Thanks for that. It just about confirms my long term suspicion of oxygen deprivation as a cause - but what a weirdly specific effect!

[sugarmags]

My son has Asperger's and scored a 9 on his APGAR. He had no probs at birth. Regarding the MMR, you need to ask the doctor about the preservative in the vaccine. Many vaccines were kept fresh with some sort of mercury (I forget exactly what the solution was called.) Since children are often vaccinated with 2 or 3 shots at time, the levels could rise and cause probs. I am not a scientist, but I do have a nephew with Austim and he was fine until his shots. He was starting to talk before the shots at 13 months; now he's three and does not talk at all. His parents did a lot of research and the mercury thing is what they came up with. Of course, we'll never know for sure but it's better to become informed and ask questions. Ask your doctor about what's in the vaccine and suggest that they be spaced out over a period of time.

[eggman]

Sugarmags,

thanks for the tip;  I have to say that I really am very disturbed that mercury is used at all in this particular context. I shall be duly asking some searching questions of my GP if and when I actually do vaccinate wee James.  Thank you indeed.

 

Regards, eggman 

[enigma]

Hi Eggman. I've been popping in and out to check your thread and I see that this worry is still quite understandably troubling you. I note that sugarmags mentioned mercury as a preservative in the MMR vaccination and I thought that I would let you know what I found on a search of this information. Mercury is no longer going to be used in the MMR vaccination amid fears of links to Autism. If you go to http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=702 you will get a lot of information regarding the controversy surrounding the whole MMR issue but also , an article on the use of mercury as a preservative and the reasons for discontinuing usage. If you scroll down to the heading ' Mercury to be removed from baby vaccines' , dated 7th August 2004 , you will see that there are plans to now give babies a 5 in one vaccination without mercury. This is obviously an issue close to my heart too as I have previously had my two girls immunised and am due my third child in 10 days time. So I know how you feel Eggman. Take care x

[eggman]

Thanks for that, enigma, that's put my mind at rest on the mercury front at least.  I'm sure the MMR jab is safe;  as I say, my other two kids have had it without any ill effects, and as has already been mentioned there are potentially some very serious consequences upon measles, mumps and rubella.  I just wish that the government would play ball with the people who elected it to power, that's all.  Democracy truly is a wondrous thing sometimes, don't you think?

Regards, eggman X

[TheGodfather]

Don't forget that Autism is not diagnosed until about 3 years old, generally - my littlun was diagnosed very early at 20 months but that is because he is showing very obvious traits. First signs of Autism are from 12 to 15 months, it doens't just start, it's just that that is when they don't start doing the things they should do, if that makes sense.

Many people will tell you that they noticed it just after the MMR jab, just so happens that the MMR jab is given from 12-18 months old. I am not saying anyone is lieing, but as soon as your child has the MMR jab you are almost looking for Autism to rear it's head. Yes, some children do suddenly stop talking, but then Autistic children can start and stop talking all throuhg their lives, such is the condition.

There were some tests carried out and the results published earlier this month - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4311613.stm - makes interesting reading. Unfortunately Autism happens, it can affect any child and it looks like having/not having the MMR jab is not going to make any difference. The bigger issue should be as to how much of a risk/how irresponsible you are being by not having your child immunised.