Your punishment, and God.

[Lonnie]

I'm having a field day here at the moment,

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/museum/curtis-museum/ alton-history/fanny-adams.htm

If the above story was to happen today, in Britain, (non Brits please answer also), what punishment do you reckon he'd get?,

What, if you had the power, would you recomend, and for people of the religious persuasion, where would God fit into it?.

Many thanks.

[Lonnie]

Now for the other bit, 'People not being able to remove tyhemselves mentally from god', thats true, partly because of the way they've been brought up, partly because of good old narrow mindedness, and patly, in Israel at least, a racial thing.

As an example, Sabra Jews, are, for the most part, but not all, treated worse by the governing body, than the Arabs,
The governing body being mostly European Jews, so there's also a form of Apartheid practiced there also

But on the whole, I agree with you.

[Octavius]

As said, the area has been awash with various invaders, settling travellers and traders and generally people who came down from the hills, from the Babylonians, Egyptians, Canaanites, Assyrian, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Hasmonean, Romans, Arab Conquests, Crusades, Ottoman, Napoleon�..Ottomans again�.

It goes on and on. Of course nowadays we only see the Arab/Jew divide but back then it was about power and control over important trade routes. Animosity in the region goes way deeper than religion. Anyone who wanted power and wealth wanted control of the Levant.

I have been to Israel, all over it in fact and I found it and its people to be some of the finest and most passionate about life in the world. Calling such a place the saddest place in the world is akin to calling Croydon the cultural centre of the UK.

[naomi24]

You clearly see it from a different, and apparently a more materialistic, viewpoint than me, Octavius. I find it incredibly sad - nothing like Croydon, I'll grant you - but, to my mind, sad, nonetheless. (Sorry Croydon - just a joke).

[naomi24]

I'm pleased that I managed to convey what I was trying to say about removing oneself mentally from the biblical God, Lonnie. Thanks for that.

[Octavius]

Apparently more materialistic?

You mean my reference to it being (historically) the central divide of an important trading point? It wasn�t me who saw it that way, that�s how our ancestors saw it. Its how they saw the Mediterranean (the Great Green, the Hinder Sea, Middle Sea, Western Sea, the Roman Sea) generally. Control of the Med meant power and wealth. Other key holdings being the Silk Road, the Amber Road, the Spice Route etc etc.

Generally somebody always tended to want what someone else has. This has ocurred throughout time, throughout the world. Putting all that down purely to religious conflict would be rather asinine.

[naomi24]

I know my history Octavius. I was referring to your assessment of it in the present day. However, none of that is relevant, since the question I asked Lonnie was did he feel it was a spiritual place?

[Octavius]

I certainly felt it had spiritual presence.

[naomi24]

Did you? Where in particular?

[keyplus90]

naomi24
Mon 27/10/08
17:41 Lonnie, the Abrahamic religions, with their horrendous God, are often ingrained into people from an early age, and along with that comes the inbuilt fear and the superstition. It all becomes a normal part of their lives, it becomes the way they think, the way they live, and hence it's difficult, and often impossible, for them to remove themselves from it to look at the wider picture. Indeed they're usually too afraid to even begin to think differently.


So you were born as an atheist, were you?

[naomi24]

A inane question that doesn't warrant a response.

[Lonnie]

keyplus, your an intelligent person, and a good contributer to this site, but your last to naomi wasn't warrented.

[naomi24]

Thanks, Lonnie. So do you feel that Israel is a spiritual place?

[keyplus90]

When few people do not have a suitable and sensible answer then they usually behave like this..... Not to worry.

[Lonnie]

Certain places felt spiritual, the Golden Dome, Temples etc, mind you, the Wailing wall didn't, just touristy, but thats the same anywhere,
I think its because in these places, its always quiet, and people move about in them in a hushed respectful way, and you are, because your there, infected with the same, also, you don't want to offend.

As to Israel itself, no, not spiritual, but the people there have a fatalism that you won't find anywhere else in the world.
Bearing in mind, I didn't mix with the Frums.

[MsEVP]

I`ve been enjoying this thread and I want to thank all participants. Sorry it seems to have petered out, even though there seem to be some unfinished business. Maybe another time?

[naomi24]

Not quite finished yet hopefully Tina. I'm enjoying it too.

I'm pleased you said that Lonnie, because I didn't find it a spiritual place either. I tried very hard to 'feel' something - especially at the Wall, but there was nothing. As for the Christian religious sites - well, they are something else! I can't imagine how anyone can be taken in by them. I found it a very odd place indeed. Fascinating from an historical point of view, of course - but there's an atmosphere there that I didn't like at all.

[Lonnie]

Not sure if anyones atill on this thread, but a big thankyou to all who have contributed, and to naomi and MsEVP, i'm glad you've rnjoyed it, as have I.

[MsEVP]

Thank you, Lonnie, it was a pleasure meeting you, and, hopefully, we`ll engage in some meaningful discourse at another time.