Memes

[123everton]

Does anyone hear believe in the memes theory?

[123everton]

Ifundibulum (how'd ya come by that name?) I find not a lot to disagree with there.
I'm just wondering as to why atheism is'nt an idea or a meme, and if that some people are as equally susceptible to conditioning in an atheist sense as a religious sense.

[naomi24]

The question didn�t ask �Is a meme an idea that spreads through a group?�, but never mind - if you�re awake, and at the risk of boring you even more, Everton, if you want me to answer the original question, I�ll answer it. Yes. (Chakka summed it up very nicely, although I don�t go with his autism from MMR suggestion. I would have thought the meme would work the other way around with that one and apply to the majority verdict. It seems he has fallen foul of that particular meme. Still mustn't digress).

Now to �Is a meme an idea that spreads through a group?� Apparently.

No one invented the concept of Atheism and therefore it is not an idea. Best not go down the path of the Big Bang because, from experience, goodness knows where we�ll end up. Probably somewhere in Timbuktu via Rorkes Drift and the Hungarian Uprising.

Not necessarily. It depends on the subject matter.

Right, I believe all your questions have been answered.

Infundebulum, You say I have NO way of knowing that, but I would suggest that if religion didn�t exist, it would never be taught, and therefore the idea would never be implanted into people�s minds, and hence would never spread. If someone changes their faith, the concept of religion would be pre-existing. Clearly you can�t �change� religion, unless you already adhere to a religion.

123Everton is indeed a living example. He has been exposed to religion and is now a Christian.

[123everton]

Oops you're getting upset again Naomi.
Noone invented the concept of atheism?
Atheism is an idea as much as anything else, I disagree with your contention entirely.

[naomi24]

err ....I don't understand you. Why would you think I'm upset?

How is atheism an idea? We're all atheists until someone teaches us about a god.

[123everton]

Chaka, MMR, Timbuktu through to Rorkes Drfift uncle Tom Cobbley an all, you've carried that weight a long time, but so long as you feel better for it. Quite a good bit of sarcasm though, I must confess.
We can't speak read or write until someone teaches us about it, if I were Russian I'd write in cyrillic, if I were French I'd speak French are these memes?
Religion is the vehicle people use to explain the concept of reality.
Atheism is a vehicle people use to explain the concept of reality.
Imagine a village of 12 cave men, 1 goes to 1 side of the valley and 1 goes to the other to consider how we all got here. The 1st comes down and says a God made the earth, then the other 1 says no he did'nt.
Just because atheism serves to reject an idea does'nt mean that it itself is not an idea.
As we age we ask ourselves the question how did we get here, some conclude that God did it, some conclude otherwise, but both are ideas.
You only have to convince yourself that atheism is'nt a meme, you've failed to do that for me.

[naomi24]

Everton, you've shot yourself in the foot with your analogy to languages. No one is born speaking a language, just as no one is born believing in God. Like language, we do not learn about God until we are taught. Therefore, until that time we have no belief in God.

[123everton]

So is language a meme?
Because we have many different languages?
The main thrust of my last post was the cave man analogy, your insight please.

[naomi24]

Everton, One of your caveman came up with the idea of a God. The other disagreed with him., so who had the idea that God created the earth? Not the atheist. He simply disagreed with the first man's explanation.

[123everton]

You're playing with words now, the 2 came up with different solutions for the reality of existence.
Say the atheist spoke first, to reject an idea is still an idea.
You've said nothing thus far to convince me that atheism is not a meme, in so much as a meme is an idea that spreads through a group.
It strikes me that the term meme is a piece of shorthand that a certain group of scholars use to identify others, and by paradoxicaly themselves.

[naomi24]

No, I'm not playing with words. How could the atheist possibly speak first? There would have been nothing for him to reject. The idea of a God wouldn't have entered his mind. Think about it.

[123everton]

Everybody at some point thinks about where they came from I'd assume at some point in their lives.
Unless the answer is well first mummy and daddy meet each other and decide that they love each other very much...
It is when one begins to think formulatively and about the world around them that you start to decide.
Some people develop the idea that God made the world, some develop the idea that that is wrong and both seek evidence from experience and books to prove their point.
To suggest which came first the chicken or the egg is erroneous, atheism and theism are both ideas.
I know neither of us will be able to convince the other of this.

[naomi24]

What's erroneous is to assume that everyone somehow must take God into consideration. I think your basic stumbling block here, Everton, is that you find it impossible to conceive that some people don't believe in God and that the concept of God for those who discount the theory in its entirety is never a consideration. There's no chicken and egg to consider. Without theism the word atheism would never have been coined. Atheism is not an idea - it's the total rejection of an idea.

[123everton]

Your miles off with the stumbling block, I say to reject an idea is an idea within itself, we're gonna go round in circles here.

[naomi24]

It depends on which definition you choose to describe the word 'idea', but you're right about circles. Not a lot of point in continuing. Good discussion though. Bye.