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police brutality????
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now i am against the police agression at the recent events in london and i hope that the policemen that were violent and used ''reasonable force'' against the g20 protestors are brought to justice....but can anyone remember pc keith blakelock and the broadwater farm horror......no wonder the police sh*te themselves sometimes.........................
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Thankfully I've never stood on the Kop.
Parafin what you are not grasping is the fact that behind him were scores of heavily armed, highly trained men, he was in no real danger and had no need to lose his temper or his cool.
Snot faced is not a word I'd use to describe some of the battles I've had with people, knives are not unusual in my job to be encountered (1 gun) I've had 30 people fighting on my bus whilst I've been penned into the cab, deluded?
No I accept that the police are human and I accept that they can make mistakes but those mistakes I expect to be comparable to the pressure and the risk.
For instance, De Menezes terrible accident made under great pressure of a bomb and a schizophrenic shot in Wavertree a few years ago, unfortunate, arguably avoidable, but I have no quarrel with police actions in those (and many other) instances.
The police got it wrong in this and the other case, accept it.
Parafin what you are not grasping is the fact that behind him were scores of heavily armed, highly trained men, he was in no real danger and had no need to lose his temper or his cool.
Snot faced is not a word I'd use to describe some of the battles I've had with people, knives are not unusual in my job to be encountered (1 gun) I've had 30 people fighting on my bus whilst I've been penned into the cab, deluded?
No I accept that the police are human and I accept that they can make mistakes but those mistakes I expect to be comparable to the pressure and the risk.
For instance, De Menezes terrible accident made under great pressure of a bomb and a schizophrenic shot in Wavertree a few years ago, unfortunate, arguably avoidable, but I have no quarrel with police actions in those (and many other) instances.
The police got it wrong in this and the other case, accept it.
123:
I was staggered that no one has been prosecuted regarding the execution of Joan Charles de Menezes, because there is no other word for it, he was executed.
There is no way I could even begin to defend the Police on that one, no matter what you may believe.
But to equate their job to yours is simply breathtaking in the extreme. Sorry.
I was staggered that no one has been prosecuted regarding the execution of Joan Charles de Menezes, because there is no other word for it, he was executed.
There is no way I could even begin to defend the Police on that one, no matter what you may believe.
But to equate their job to yours is simply breathtaking in the extreme. Sorry.
paraffin
The police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside - nothing wrong with that - my comments totally justified !
When the Police are provoked they should respond as reasonably as the law requires them to do - if they go beyond that then the police should be subjected to the law same as everyone else - all humans are human including the police and all humans including the police are not above the law !
The police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside - nothing wrong with that - my comments totally justified !
When the Police are provoked they should respond as reasonably as the law requires them to do - if they go beyond that then the police should be subjected to the law same as everyone else - all humans are human including the police and all humans including the police are not above the law !
Ah, olddutch:
You've resurfaced but have still failed to respond to my 21:29 post from yesterday - or have you not bothered reading it?
Stop being so pompous: "The police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside." Smug, self righteous twaddle.
I know better than you ever will just how well the Police serve the Public. You speak as if the Police will get the proverbial "red card" should they dare incur anyone's wrath.
Don't you realise that just the very nature of the job of a Police Officer incurs someone's wrath? It's not a popularity contest, it's a thankless task which the vast majority of our nation, including yourself, would run a mile from ever contemplating, let alone doing.
The financial "rewards", for example, of doing a job whereby your life is literally on the line on a daily basis, are most certainly not the reason why anyone joins the Police.
Apart from the odd rotten apple, the vast majority of the men and women join because they feel the need to try to serve their communities to the best of their abilities. They are assaulted, insulted, harangued, ridiculed, complained about, genuinely and maliciously, berated and criticised on a daily basis, and too many have given their lives in the line of duty.
All for what? So that sanctimonious and pompous individuals with the backbone of a centipede can take cheap, cowardly and undeserving jibes at them. Shame on you. Constructive criticism is one thing - but baseless, holier-than-thou sniping is deplorable. I pity you. Take care that your halo doesn't slip.
You've resurfaced but have still failed to respond to my 21:29 post from yesterday - or have you not bothered reading it?
Stop being so pompous: "The police need to behave reasonably and as respectfully as possible to keep the public onside." Smug, self righteous twaddle.
I know better than you ever will just how well the Police serve the Public. You speak as if the Police will get the proverbial "red card" should they dare incur anyone's wrath.
Don't you realise that just the very nature of the job of a Police Officer incurs someone's wrath? It's not a popularity contest, it's a thankless task which the vast majority of our nation, including yourself, would run a mile from ever contemplating, let alone doing.
The financial "rewards", for example, of doing a job whereby your life is literally on the line on a daily basis, are most certainly not the reason why anyone joins the Police.
Apart from the odd rotten apple, the vast majority of the men and women join because they feel the need to try to serve their communities to the best of their abilities. They are assaulted, insulted, harangued, ridiculed, complained about, genuinely and maliciously, berated and criticised on a daily basis, and too many have given their lives in the line of duty.
All for what? So that sanctimonious and pompous individuals with the backbone of a centipede can take cheap, cowardly and undeserving jibes at them. Shame on you. Constructive criticism is one thing - but baseless, holier-than-thou sniping is deplorable. I pity you. Take care that your halo doesn't slip.
Paraffin
Think youve lost it just a bit - calm down old chap ! Your post of yesterday is just an alternative view to which I dont fully subscribe.
The police, as I have already said, generally do a good job but NOT always - they are not always angels and are NOT above the law EVER - please try properly reading my original post instead of patronisingly arrogantly and aggressively trying to ram your views down my throat.
As I said in my original post the police have a lot to put up with and have a sometimes difficult, dangerous job - but - they do sometimes get it wrong. Yes, youre qualified to pronounce on pomposity - take care never to open your mind to possibility that your way of seeing things might not be the only way ! But do me a favour - no more ranting or ramming, please.
Think youve lost it just a bit - calm down old chap ! Your post of yesterday is just an alternative view to which I dont fully subscribe.
The police, as I have already said, generally do a good job but NOT always - they are not always angels and are NOT above the law EVER - please try properly reading my original post instead of patronisingly arrogantly and aggressively trying to ram your views down my throat.
As I said in my original post the police have a lot to put up with and have a sometimes difficult, dangerous job - but - they do sometimes get it wrong. Yes, youre qualified to pronounce on pomposity - take care never to open your mind to possibility that your way of seeing things might not be the only way ! But do me a favour - no more ranting or ramming, please.
olddutch:
I have never "ranted or rammed" in my life, nor shall I begin now. Even your patronising tone couldn't persuade me to.
Because someone cares passionately about a profession which does so much good, expresses their support and admiration for it, and chooses to disagree with those who prefer to denigrate that profession, it does not mean that they have "lost it".
I prefer to live in a country like ours where we have a Police Service which is accountable, yet still fallible and prone to mistakes, as any of us are, instead of those societies where Police Officers are a law unto themselves and accountable to no one.
Respect is also a two way street, and Police Officers are only too well aware that it is something to be earned. The few who fall below that standard only tarnish a hard earned reputation gained over many, many years since policing was first introduced.
They, however, also need the broad support and respect of "Joe Public" when engaged in a far from glamorous employment which is oh so easy for the unenlightened detractors to "knock".
End of "rant and ram". (Calming down already)
I have never "ranted or rammed" in my life, nor shall I begin now. Even your patronising tone couldn't persuade me to.
Because someone cares passionately about a profession which does so much good, expresses their support and admiration for it, and chooses to disagree with those who prefer to denigrate that profession, it does not mean that they have "lost it".
I prefer to live in a country like ours where we have a Police Service which is accountable, yet still fallible and prone to mistakes, as any of us are, instead of those societies where Police Officers are a law unto themselves and accountable to no one.
Respect is also a two way street, and Police Officers are only too well aware that it is something to be earned. The few who fall below that standard only tarnish a hard earned reputation gained over many, many years since policing was first introduced.
They, however, also need the broad support and respect of "Joe Public" when engaged in a far from glamorous employment which is oh so easy for the unenlightened detractors to "knock".
End of "rant and ram". (Calming down already)
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I'm not suggesting my job compares to the police (far from it) just that I often have to face large crowds of unruly people on my own, if I can stay calm then so can they, can't they?
You seem to accept yourself that they got it wrong.
To me De Menezes was a sh1t or bust decision, the pressures of facing a a potential terrorist with explosives on a train full of people, to me, allows a certain degree of scope for nervousness, that the G20 demo did not.
I don't think everyone hates the police (I don't) but I do deal with them often, sometimes the officers are excellent other times they're fcuking lazy, useless and disinterested. I'm entitled to praise them when they're right, and to scold them when they're wrong.
I feel the attitude of "hatred" you've witnessed is borne more from the fact that when the police call, it's never a good thing, they only tend to see people at their worst, the very best news an officer can deliver is that someone has been found safe and well, which again only signifies the end of a bad time.
Well that and they're the baddies.
You seem to accept yourself that they got it wrong.
To me De Menezes was a sh1t or bust decision, the pressures of facing a a potential terrorist with explosives on a train full of people, to me, allows a certain degree of scope for nervousness, that the G20 demo did not.
I don't think everyone hates the police (I don't) but I do deal with them often, sometimes the officers are excellent other times they're fcuking lazy, useless and disinterested. I'm entitled to praise them when they're right, and to scold them when they're wrong.
I feel the attitude of "hatred" you've witnessed is borne more from the fact that when the police call, it's never a good thing, they only tend to see people at their worst, the very best news an officer can deliver is that someone has been found safe and well, which again only signifies the end of a bad time.
Well that and they're the baddies.
Hello again Paraffin
Thanks for your latest toned down more respectful post.
I have two neices in the police service and wouldnt denigrate the service - in fact I agree with very much of what you and birdie said - but I was putting forward, I believe, a balanced real world view where neither Police nor Protestors are perfect. I believe,the very large majority of both groups are sound in what they do - but both police and protestors, have unacceptable elements and behaviours.
Indeed, today the incoming chief inspector of constabulary, Denis O' Connor - who is investigating police tactics in relation to G20 protestors - said, before the Commons home affairs committee, that the actions of some police officers at the G20 protest were unacceptable and added it was utterly unacceptable for officers to hide their badges from the public. Mr O' Connors points were echoed by Mr Nick Hardwick , head of the IPCC.
Mr O'Connor further said :-
" My concern was obviously about the individual incidents where officers, on the face of it, appeared to break with their colleagues and assault people.
" We in this country expect the very best from our Police, quite properly, and police officers who give their lives - as Gary Toms did, sadly, very recently - do it for a very noble cause.
"So when you see something that does not square with that noble cause, it is disappointing and hugely concerning - what I saw was unacceptable ! "
Mr O' Connor also said he would be examining "Kettling" and that the incident in which an officer slapped Nicola Fisher and hit her with his baton was "unacceptable" adding "What I saw did not impress me that it's the British way "
I understand that you as an ex policeman have seen and dealt with extreme and difficult incidents and may well be suffering still from the stress of your former difficult job.
(this post continued in a
Thanks for your latest toned down more respectful post.
I have two neices in the police service and wouldnt denigrate the service - in fact I agree with very much of what you and birdie said - but I was putting forward, I believe, a balanced real world view where neither Police nor Protestors are perfect. I believe,the very large majority of both groups are sound in what they do - but both police and protestors, have unacceptable elements and behaviours.
Indeed, today the incoming chief inspector of constabulary, Denis O' Connor - who is investigating police tactics in relation to G20 protestors - said, before the Commons home affairs committee, that the actions of some police officers at the G20 protest were unacceptable and added it was utterly unacceptable for officers to hide their badges from the public. Mr O' Connors points were echoed by Mr Nick Hardwick , head of the IPCC.
Mr O'Connor further said :-
" My concern was obviously about the individual incidents where officers, on the face of it, appeared to break with their colleagues and assault people.
" We in this country expect the very best from our Police, quite properly, and police officers who give their lives - as Gary Toms did, sadly, very recently - do it for a very noble cause.
"So when you see something that does not square with that noble cause, it is disappointing and hugely concerning - what I saw was unacceptable ! "
Mr O' Connor also said he would be examining "Kettling" and that the incident in which an officer slapped Nicola Fisher and hit her with his baton was "unacceptable" adding "What I saw did not impress me that it's the British way "
I understand that you as an ex policeman have seen and dealt with extreme and difficult incidents and may well be suffering still from the stress of your former difficult job.
(this post continued in a
(Continued post to Paraffin)
However,I still believe those police who exceed their authority and misbehave should be held to account and suspect police practices should be eliminated. This is for the good of all - the police and the public alike ! Like Mr O'Connor and Mr Hardwick I am not denigrating the police service - just putting ,I hope, a common sense constructive point of view - with which you may well still disagree ?
Anyway have a good evening !
However,I still believe those police who exceed their authority and misbehave should be held to account and suspect police practices should be eliminated. This is for the good of all - the police and the public alike ! Like Mr O'Connor and Mr Hardwick I am not denigrating the police service - just putting ,I hope, a common sense constructive point of view - with which you may well still disagree ?
Anyway have a good evening !
Hi olddutch:
Thanks for your last post. I've just put another post on the News at 00:25 today, before I actually read yours.
If you happen to read it, you will see that I have directly quoted a piece from what Nick Hardwick told the same MPs committee which you referred to. Unfortunately I didn't see Mr O'Connor's interview.
But what Mr Hardwick said impressed me. He has stated quite categorically that he won't be distracted from gathering the most important element of all - evidence - instead of relying on media reports as it appears many people in the country have done, instead of waiting for as many facts as possible to be uncovered.
I'm fully aware that on the face of it there are pictures which appear to put the Police in a bad light but, as the saying goes "looks can be deceiving". The Police will not fear the enquiry, although any who know they stepped out of line may, for the Service is well used to close scrutiny, which is the way it should be, as long as it is fair, above board, and gives both perspectives with equanimity. No one can ask more.
I hope your nieces return home safely from every day's work they do.
Thanks for your last post. I've just put another post on the News at 00:25 today, before I actually read yours.
If you happen to read it, you will see that I have directly quoted a piece from what Nick Hardwick told the same MPs committee which you referred to. Unfortunately I didn't see Mr O'Connor's interview.
But what Mr Hardwick said impressed me. He has stated quite categorically that he won't be distracted from gathering the most important element of all - evidence - instead of relying on media reports as it appears many people in the country have done, instead of waiting for as many facts as possible to be uncovered.
I'm fully aware that on the face of it there are pictures which appear to put the Police in a bad light but, as the saying goes "looks can be deceiving". The Police will not fear the enquiry, although any who know they stepped out of line may, for the Service is well used to close scrutiny, which is the way it should be, as long as it is fair, above board, and gives both perspectives with equanimity. No one can ask more.
I hope your nieces return home safely from every day's work they do.
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