Is your god evil?

[mibn2cweus]

Of all the evil thoughts that the human mind has conceived is there any more vile and prejudicially divisive than to harbour a belief that the universe was deliberately created and intentionally designed for the sole purpose and with the full and certain knowledge that some would live eternally in the undreamed and unmerited bliss of heaven with the very same monster that condemned the rest to endure the unendurable torture of everlasting hell? Of all the actions one could choose, why bother to speculate about one that approaches the depravity of worshiping an entity capable of carrying out such a devious and whimsically unjust scheme? Where within the history of reason has any believer ever suffered disproportionately to the crime of entertaining and promoting such beliefs?

Dare I ask of any or each and every one of you, your thoughts relating to these matters? Just to be fair, be pre warned that I will be scrutinising your answers carefully for each and every breach of reason and justifiability and that beyond this warning 'fairness' (as arbitrarily as you may wish to define it) will not necessarily be a consideration . . .

[mibn2cweus]

Wildwood, the lack of a loving goddess is the only rational explanation I can conceive for gods apparent mean streak. But I must admit I am a bit of a Zenaphobe . . . the thought of her putting on the squeeze scares the dickens out of me.


Wiz, what a shame . . . all this custard pie going to waste.

[naomi24]

Plenty in the freezer. ;o)

[mibn2cweus]

Yikes!

I not so sure she'd go to the trouble to thaw them out first either!

[jno]

oh well, let me say an overwhelming NO, then.

People don't turn to religion to be made miserable. Historically, Christianity in particular became popular because it assured people that although their lives were already miserable, there was a better life to come. Nothing evil about that.

Furthermore, studies have shown that religion is good for you. It makes you happier. That isn't evil. It's good. You may say it makes people happy only the same way Prozac does, but that's irrelevant: Prozac isn't evil either.

The tortures of everlasting hell are mostly in your own mind; there's not a lot about them in the Bible. The new testament is mainly about God's love. In the old testament, the main punishment for lack of belief isn't hell, it's just wandering in the wilderness, and occasional flooding, and people were getting that anyway. So the message is: disbelieve and stay as you are/ believe and go to a better life.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Health/Story?id=4354 12&page=1

[beso]

The part that gives me the most concern is the Book of Joshua where God implores and assists the israelites to massacre dozens of tribes and worship the gold and silver taking from them.

He is definitely a monster. Apparently we all have to pay for our sins through some kind of suffering. Since He set it up then He made this rule. Joshusa also explains how an innocent animal can endre the suffering and death for ones evil.

But God also accepted the suffering endured by the torture of His only son. So long as someone suffers. And don't forget that if your ancestors did wrong then you automatically qualify for punishment.

Apparently God had a bit of a thing about killing sons. The inspiration to kill his son in the name of God was Abraham's moment of revalation in initiating the monotheistic faiths.

Then there was the punishment inflicted on the sons's of the Egyptian who had given the Israelites a hard time. However they Egyptians got off very lightly compared to those they murdered in the Promised Land. "Every man, woman and child was put to the sword".

This supposed loving God is nothing more than the primitive worship of brutality dreamed up a long time ago by some arrogant Hebrews. This hideous deitiy has no place in our civilisation and its worship underpins many of the problems we face.

[naomi24]

But how is that to be done, Steve, when these people wield such influence over the easily-led? To his gullible and superstitious followers, this horrendous, fictitious, God is not a symbol - he's very real indeed. The myth of religion is what should be rooted out of all societies, because without that, the evil you speak of, and the evil that Mibs speaks of - could not, and would not, exist.

[jno]

the Abraham/Isaac story actually means the reverse: God told Abraham to kill an animal instead. Animal liberationists will probably say he should have stuck with killing Isaac, but in essence this story is about the move away from human sacrifice, which was commonplace with other tribes at the time. So God was being quite progressive, really.

[mibn2cweus]

Yet when it came to sacrificing His own Son God reverted to the methods of the past?


I regret that recently I've been neglecting this thread especially in light of the thought provoking and overall polite dialog that continues to take place. I do hope to contribute (more than just sound bites) myself to this thread when I am able to provide something hopefully meaningful and in some way conclusive when I am able to give this the thought and attention it obviously deserves but in the meantime thanks to everyone for your own unique thoughts and perspectives. In the meantime I invite and encourage you to please carry on . . .

[beso]

As I understand Abraham's loyalty was tested by God by asking him to kill his son. It is a demonstration of the kind of devotion required by God.

Once Abraham showed that he would go through with it God backed down. So then in His wisdon He advised that the pointless death of an animal would be a good idea instead.

It is all explained in Joshua how this works.

If you are rich you must atone your sins by taking a cow or similar to the priest. The priest must slaughter it and then pour the blood on a specific face of the altar. Then he must burn the body of the animal. None of it must be eaten.

Poor people can bring a bird instead. No wonder the priests preferred the poor. Burning a cow is a huge undertaking.

Nowdays it is very hard to find a priest willing to undertake God's Word.

[naomi24]

None of it must be eaten because God was big on barbeque and wanted it all for himself. Perhaps we should add gluttony to his long list of failings. :o)

Seriously, why would this great God demand sacrifice? Since he's apparently all powerful and knows everything, it follows that he would be quite aware of the extent of his worshippers' devotion, so what was the point? What would he gain from it? It makes no sense. Perhaps he took pleasure in causing suffering and that was just another facet of his barbaric cruelty.

[keyplus90]

You have mentioned the word god on a website where even god himself would not be able to prove his innocence because majority of the people will not agree. Simple, so now call him whatever you want to and this too is known as free will.

Or you just wait and see now.

[naomi24]

You have mentioned the word god on a website where even god himself would not be able to prove his innocence because majority of the people will not agree. Simple, so now call him whatever you want to and this too is known as free will.

Or you just wait and see now.

Keyplus, Of course the majority of people here would not agree because the majority of people here are not brainwashed by religious superstition, and take no pleasure in the prospect of the insane, malicious, and hate-filled retribution that this God promises to non-believers. Mibs is right when he says Of all the actions one could choose, why bother to speculate about one that approaches the depravity of worshiping an entity capable of carrying out such a devious and whimsically unjust scheme? This is not 'justice' - it is evil antipathy at its worst - and as such, it is depraved. Although you apparently find this God's actions completely acceptable, if we judged him by the laws of humanity, he would be deemed dangerously psychopathic, encased in a straightjacket, and locked away from society for eternity - and rightly so!

You wave this cyber stick of 'you just wait and see' with great relish, Keyplus - and as a human being, that in itself should worry you.

[mibn2cweus]

Whether you paint your door with the blood of an innocent animal or wash your mind with the �blood of the Lamb�, happiness is not simply the absence of or refusal to acknowledge ones own pain, fear and guilt. Genuine happiness is not achieved by running away from reality but a result of having learned and practiced the art of knowing how to live, here and now in this world. This life, our only life, is not a gift to be squandered but an opportunity to realise the potential life has provided us with, a hope that will never be realised by holding out for an empty promise to be fulfilled beyond the grave.

While you are praying to your god to ease your sorrows remember that in conceding his existence you are complicit to the less humane actions of any who use gods name, whether it be their god or yours, for actions that are no more justifiable than your belief in a nonexistent overseer of reality.

Reality does not conform to fantasies no matter how calloused your knees or callused your proclamations of eternal retribution. Fantasy only provides the means to speculate about what might be possible if we are willing to gain an understanding of and conform to what is possible within the framework of and by obeying the laws governing reality.

Essential to acknowledging the reality we can not escape with our lives is an awareness of the waste laid before us by those unwilling to accept that a fantasy is only a fantasy until one has made it real. Reality will not yield up its treasures to those unwilling to ripe open the curtain and reveal that the Wizard of Oz is nothing more than a devious man at the controls of a frightful illusion.