where are all the islamophiles?

[R1Geezer]

At least Vic's had ago at the Muslim question below, a bit quiet perhaps, but where are te rest of the "Islam is good" brigade, you know the ones who are quite happy with the religion of peace, the silence is deafening!

[birdie1971]

As you can see Keyplus, I have not created my own Hadith.

I have quoted a reputable source � verifiable by anyone who chooses to look.


I know what you are trying to do Keyplus. Every time I post a quote, you question its authenticity. Well done. This is a very interesting tactic.

I suppose that if you keep saying that my quotes are spurious, you hope to convince readers that I'm making them up. You've highlighted a shortcoming in my arguments. From now on I shall quantify all my quotes with verifiable links.

Let's start with this one.... http://prophetofdoom.net/Islamic_Quotes.Islam


Why do you find criticism of your religion so offensive Keyplus?

Is it because you know it's all nonsense?

Clue: Shhhhh! Speak quietly........ there's no God! It's all been made up! When you die, you just stop existing � you don't go anywhere! Sorry if that's a bit depressing, but there you go. Life's s**t then you die.

[birdie1971]

And you won't get 72 virgins.

Sorry about that.

[Oneeyedvic]

If you want to control a section of society, first frighten them and second, demoralise them.

Very true. A bit like saying that Islam is the biggest threat inithe world. I would call that frightening people. Then you could introduce laws - lets call them anti terror laws that enabled the police to have unrestricted power. Hang on a second, this sounds familiar......



I am not particularly knowledgeable about the Koran - but to say that you will quote sources and the put a link to a site that is entitled 'prophetofdoom' would hardly be an impartial link.

It's a bit like me saying that all white Christians are evil and then putting a link to the Ku Klux Klan website.

[keyplus90]

Your reference is as reputable as you are yourself. First of all let me tell you that all the Muslims believe without any doubt that although hadiths are sayings of prophet (pbuh) but after all he was a human and these words got to others through other people and therefore none of the Hadiths are 100% without a doubt. Quran is 100% without doubt whereas Quran's interpretation and translation again is not 100% without a doubt. So in simple words (before you get confused as I know you are a nursery student) Islam should be looked at with the help of these two sources together and if you know Arabic then that helps. Although even written records (Quran and Hadith) are still more reputable than any other religious scripture but still Islam�s beauty is not confined to just books, but in day to day practicality as it is not just a religion but way of life. You name any problem in day to day life, social, economical, physical and so on and Islam would have already given guidelines about that.
Now towards your hadith but with some back ground story,
Just like few people today say that American nukes saved millions (I don't agree with that but) same way at that time killing one man by the name of Kaab saved lots of others. The reason he was killed for was treason and almost in most of the countries even now the penalty for that is same.

Finally not for you birdie as I know where your reputable knowledge comes from, but for others here, this is the full story on another chat line someone posted for someone like you.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20 090421034515AAmAa3k

Now next time give me the answer to my question asked earlier or I do not have any more time to waste on you.

[birdie1971]

Oneeyedvic - �I am not particularly knowledgeable about the Koran - but to say that you will quote sources and the put a link to a site that is entitled 'prophetofdoom' would hardly be an impartial link�

The link is not impartial. I never said it was.

BUT...

The quotes are.

They exist and are genuine quotes from genuine Islamic sources.


Interpret them as you will.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus - �...I do not have any more time to waste on you.�

Good.

Then I can stop debating with a pathological liar then can I?

Just because I post quotes from http://prophetofdoom.net/ you refuse to believe that they are real. Even though they are genuine quotes and you know damn well that they are.


But I have to say Keyplus, that you are a liar. You are duplicitous in the extreme.


You claim to have offered me a first class ticket to Pakistan � A LIE.

You claim that I make up Hadiths � A LIE.

You lie and you lie and you lie. Everyone reading our exchanges can see that you are dishonest. Why on earth do you continue? Do you enjoy making an idiot of yourself?

You attempt to (in previous posts) excuse the most disgusting, despicable practices such as child abuse by claiming that it was 'okay at the time', eg. Mohammed marrying a child of SIX and having sexual intercourse with her when she was nine. NINE!!! Good God man! Do you not see the inherent evil in this? Even Aisha's father was 'troubled' by a fifty-three year old man marrying such a young girl � it is often argued that it was normal to marry and have sexual intercourse with such young girls but THIS IS NOT TRUE.

How many young girls have been raped because of Mohammed's paedophilia?

Quote, �In Iran as of June 2002 it is legal for a 9 year old girl to marry with her parents� permission.� - http://www.muslimhope.com/AishaNine.htm




You are truly pathetic Keyplus.

Attempting to defend a rotten-to-the-core religion by using lies... pathetic.

[keyplus90]

Answer to the questions please.

[birdie1971]

OK. You're referring to the Spain / India question, yes?

So your questions would be, �Why were there more non-Muslims in Spain after Muslim rule?� and �Why were there more non-Muslims in India after Muslim rule?�

Wow. You don't want much do you?

So you expect me to give you a history of Muslim ruled Spain and India on this site?


Dream on you moron.


Not only is that not possible given the limitations of a website such as this, it also involves me extensively researching history to come up with a verifiable reason. All of this, of course, involves no effort on your part. And let's not kid ourselves here � even if I did come up with a reason that showed Islam in a bad light, you would simply refuse to believe it or even look into it's validity � because in your eyes, Islam can do no wrong.

[birdie1971]

However, in most people's eyes, Islam is wrong on so many levels. Islam as you well know does ALL of the following....

Promotes sex with children http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/ffi_ga llery/pedophilia/mollah.jpg.html

Encourages violence to children http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/ffi_ga llery/parental_care/ashura12.gif.html

Subjugates women.
http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/ffi_ga llery/stoning/stoning2.jpg.html

Glorifies violence.
http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/ffi_ga llery/lynching/bodyparts.jpg.html
http://news.faithfreedom.org/gallery2/v/ffi_ga llery/lynching/BangaliHindu.jpg.html



Yes... a nice wholesome religion isn't it?


Oh, and by the way Keplus, this is last comment I shall be making on this thread.

I'm bored of your lies. You don't believe me. Fair enough. I wouldn't expect you to, being as your are, a person who worships a murdering, brain-washing, paedophile, genocidal, misogynistic, dishonest, lunatic.

See ya.

[Oneeyedvic]

HI Birdie,

The quotes are.

They exist and are genuine quotes from genuine Islamic sources.

Interpret them as you will.

And that is a very good point. The quotes exist in Arabic and translations can be made in a number of different ways depending on what outcome you want.

Here are some examples from the Bible: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/


Do you know that in Spain it is legal for a 13 year old to have sex? That is their age of consent.

According to your logic, are all Spanish people rapists?

[keyplus90]

Birdie had never done, and will never do. Any one knows what am I talking about. simple and straight answer.

Simplest of the answers could have been not going through the history but looking at present. By nature (whatever the reason) Muslims have bigger families and more children. All you had to do that add total population of, lets say Pakistan, India and Bangladesh and perhaps other few small areas around. and see what the ratio is. Trust me just over my head, None Muslims are still almost 60% if not more.

Finally prepare to go back my little birdie as your holidays are over and nursery is opening from next monday.

[keyplus90]

Hang on just right at the end I realised that this website (faith Freedom) is run by someone called Ali Sina. He is apparently an Ex Muslim from Iran. And one thing he is very well known for is that he twists wordings of Hadiths and translation of Quran but above all he avoids face to face debate.

For a minute I thought it might be my little birdie in disguise as you have all these qualities. But then he (Ali Sina) does seem to have a little bit of sense.

[birdie1971]

Vic - �The quotes exist in Arabic and translations can be made in a number of different ways depending on what outcome you want.� - I disagree. The translations are pretty much agreed on by all parties, what is in contention is their interpretation.

"Here are some examples from the Bible:�
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I know. Actually, I have that site bookmarked � it always makes me laugh. What you are alluding to is that the Bible is just as silly and evil as the Koran. I agree.

The only reason I go on about the Koran so much on this website is because there seem to be no fanatic Christians to rebuke. Credit where credit is due, Keyplus is dogged in the defence of his religion and I actually admire for that. Although, I suspect this doesn't come across.

�Do you know that in Spain it is legal for a 13 year old to have sex? That is their age of consent.� Yes I was aware of that. In fact, see here...

http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

As you can see, none of these male-female ages is in single figures.

�According to your logic, are all Spanish people rapists?� Not so. First, not all Spanish people exercise the legal 'right' to have sex with 13 year olds (just as most Muslim men do not marry children) and secondly, I never mentioned the word 'rape'.

I was talking about paedophilia which is the having sexual feeling for children. I think it's fair to say that a 'child' is someone who is not yet a teenager.

Also, there is a HUGE difference between a 9 year old and a 13 year old. It's only four years... but in developmental, physiological and psychological terms, it's enormous.

[birdie1971]

Keyplus � Sorry for not replying sooner.

You're right about Ali Sina � he doesn't debate face to face. There is a very, very good reason for that.

When you receive emails like the ones he gets, it's wise not to engage your foes in the flesh (ie. threats of violence, death threats, etc.). Speaking out against religion can be hazardous to your health.

And, for the record Keyplus, I do not 'twists wordings of Hadiths�. I and others interpret them differently from you.

And that's the point isn't it?

If God had wanted to give His message to the world, don't you think He would have done so in such a way that left no doubt as to His existence? Instead we have disjointed texts. The Koran is probably the worst offender in this pantheon of religious works � it is written in no chronological order, it's obtuse in it's reasoning and some of it is un-translatable. That's why the Hadiths were written in the first place � to try and put the Koran into some sort of order.

It's a pretty shabby God who can't even write a book that everyone can understand; after all, He is supposed to be All Powerful.

There is an alternative though. Maybe the Koran isn't the word of God. Maybe it's just a lot of nonsense � rather like the Bible?

If there is a God, I strongly suspect that he needs us far more than we need Him.