A leaked Foreign Office document urges the Afghani Government to find some compromise...

[Sandy-Wroe]

...with the Taliban.
It must be galling for our soldiers to see their comrades killed by people who might be in government in just a few months time.

[David Black]

You mean similar to the deal we did in our North American colonies in the 1780s or South Africa in the 1900s.

Politics and diplomacy are the "Dishonest Trades" that are required to end these unhappy times whether in Northern Ireland, the US, Iraq or central Asia. Unless that is we are prepared to wage total war as we and our allies chose to do on Germany and Japan but there seems little appetite for that currently.

[jake-the-peg]

Let's not forget the Jews who fought against the British in Palestine only to govern it as Israel

Or the Irish Peace process etc. etc. etc.

WWII was unusual the way most wars end is not with a victory parade but with a peace treaty -that's the way of it, life is not Hollywood

[Gromit]

It is a mess of our own making. When the Russians invaded Afghanistan, the CIA sponsored and funded fighters to come and fight a holy war. The Mujahideen formed the resistance to the invasion, and through a long war of attrition beat the Russsians by turning public opinion in Russia against the war, The daily loss of young soldiers' lives and the body bags arriving home persuaded the public and then the Kremlin, that the losses were not worth it.

How history repeats itself.

When the Russians left, there was a power struggle resulting in a civil war. Many of the foreign fighters the US had encouraged to come to Afghanistan, sided with the Taleban, and they were the victors. Many Mujahideen went home with plans to overthrow their own corrupt, western backed governments - Al Qaeda was born. When Al Qaeda needed a safe place to train, their friends the Taleban gave them a safe place.

After the devastating attack on US soil on 9/11 the US decided to overthrow the Taleban and destroy al qaeda and a full military invasion commenced. The fact that they have been unable to do either shows the folly of that action. Now we are at the same state the Russians were, with the public weary of the war and wanting out.

But not a humiliating withdrawal like the Russians, we need to pretend we have a victory by leaving a new Government behind. Unfortunately, for that to work, the new Government will have to include some Taleban members, because they do have some support.

So we are left wondering, was it all worth it, and the answer is probably - No.

[jake-the-peg]

That's not quite true Gromit is it?

By common consent there are pretty much no AlQaida left in Afghanistan.

It would have been good to leave with a half competant government in place but that now looks unlikely to happen so its a matter of finding a withdrawal strategy that will continue to deny them safe haven in Afganistan.

If that means a deal then that's fair enough - but it must be the right deal not any deal.

There are those on here who just want us to turn tail and run at any cost - probably so then can laud it as a real disaster for their own political reasons.

I think that would be the ultimate sell out

[Gromit]

jake-the-peg

//By common consent there are pretty much no AlQaida left in Afghanistan. //

Since the invasion, al qaeda have been training the Taleban to a point where they became pretty much indistinguishable. The taleban are al qaeda in Afghanistan.

However, if you are the US and you want an exit strategy, you can re-classify all al qaeda fighters as Taleban, and say al qaeda have gone. They haven't. The Obama administration say there are less than 100 left, but our soldiers keep getting killed. Many al qaeda are over the border in Pakistan and will re-join the Taleban once we have gone.




http://www.latimes.co...oct09,0,5266050.story

[rov1200]

Gordon Brown said today that no deal will be done with the Taliban now or ever. The only solution is for Afghans to control their own destiny.

What does a Taliban soldier look like?

No different from the ordinary population so if they are ever overwhelmed by force they just melt into the ordinary population. Maybe similar to the Irish problem where ex-terrorists now mingle with the population.

Then we will wonder what all the fuss has been about and was it all worth it.
Al Qaeda have already disappeared from Iraq and most of them have gone from Afghanistan over the border into Pakistan. Will they ever come back? No! They will move onto the Yemen or Somalia for our next endless battle.

[Gromit]

//Al Qaeda have already disappeared from Iraq//

You may have missed this from a fortnight ago:

October 27, 2009
"The Iraqi government launched a massive security operation in Baghdad as Iraqis buried their dead Monday, a day after a pair of suicide attacks against government buildings killed 155, including about 30 children, some of whom were killed in a bus that was taking them to kindergarten, Interior Ministry officials said. Hundreds more people were injured in the blasts, officials said.

In a statement posted on a militant website early today, the Al Qaeda-affiliated group the Islamic State of Iraq claimed responsibility for the attacks, Reuters reported."