T W A U ... The Chase....today's...
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Homeowner jailed for 30 months for fighting off burglars
A businessman who fought off knife-wielding thugs who were threatening to kill his family has been jailed for 30 months, while his attackers avoided a jail sentence.
He and his wife and three children returned home to find three intruders, wearing balaclavas, in their home.
The family members’ hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to crawl from room to room. He was told that he would be killed, but made his escape after throwing a coffee table and enlisted his brother in chasing the offenders down the street in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, bringing one of them to the ground.
What followed was described in Reading Crown Court as self-defence that went too far, leaving intruder Walid Salem with a permanent brain injury.
Salem, who has a string of 50 past convictions, was given a two-year supervision order at a court hearing in September this year. He is currently in custody awaiting trial for an alleged credit card fraud.
But the brothers, described as family men at the heart of the local community, were found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent after a trial earlier this year.
Your comments please.
He and his wife and three children returned home to find three intruders, wearing balaclavas, in their home.
The family members’ hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to crawl from room to room. He was told that he would be killed, but made his escape after throwing a coffee table and enlisted his brother in chasing the offenders down the street in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire, bringing one of them to the ground.
What followed was described in Reading Crown Court as self-defence that went too far, leaving intruder Walid Salem with a permanent brain injury.
Salem, who has a string of 50 past convictions, was given a two-year supervision order at a court hearing in September this year. He is currently in custody awaiting trial for an alleged credit card fraud.
But the brothers, described as family men at the heart of the local community, were found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent after a trial earlier this year.
Your comments please.
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Unfortunately with the lack of a justice system that is able to mete out real punishment this is exactly how people will react. Even though its not the route I'd hope to go down its really hard to tell unless you've witnessed being the victim yourself.
You know damn well these burglars are low life wastes of space and I doubt brain damaging him is likely have any negative results on society as a large.
I guess giving someone a good shoeing will make you feel better and may also go some way to deter a would be burglar. The flip side of this is the burglar would be more likely to 'tool up' in the event of a physical confrontation or would choose their properties a bit more carefully by targeting the old, frail and vulnerable.
You know damn well these burglars are low life wastes of space and I doubt brain damaging him is likely have any negative results on society as a large.
I guess giving someone a good shoeing will make you feel better and may also go some way to deter a would be burglar. The flip side of this is the burglar would be more likely to 'tool up' in the event of a physical confrontation or would choose their properties a bit more carefully by targeting the old, frail and vulnerable.
oneeyed....I do not feel that it is morally or legally acceptable to defend one's property by undue violence.
I have tried to put to you the scenario whereby masked men had entered your house, tired you and your wife up. robbed you and you had responded in a normal biological "Fight and fright" reaction which would, in that situation could be described as a reflex action.
You rape example adds nothing to the discussion, as there are many facets unknown in that case......the main fact which stands out clearly is that the rapist was never punished for his crime and might I add, did he rape again?
I have tried to put to you the scenario whereby masked men had entered your house, tired you and your wife up. robbed you and you had responded in a normal biological "Fight and fright" reaction which would, in that situation could be described as a reflex action.
You rape example adds nothing to the discussion, as there are many facets unknown in that case......the main fact which stands out clearly is that the rapist was never punished for his crime and might I add, did he rape again?
sqad - a reflex action to attack someone who is attacking you. I have absolutely no issue with this at all.
If Mr Hussain had killed the burglar in the house with a cricket bat, being naturally scared, beating him until he died, I would again have no issue.
However, it is not a 'reflex' to go and get a couple of friends, find some 'weapons' and chase the people who attacked you, and when catching them to inflict a severe beating on them.
In the words of the prosecution: "What started as reasonable self defence by Munir Hussain then turned into excessive force by virtue of a sustained attack by Munir, Tokeer and at least two others."
If Mr Hussain had killed the burglar in the house with a cricket bat, being naturally scared, beating him until he died, I would again have no issue.
However, it is not a 'reflex' to go and get a couple of friends, find some 'weapons' and chase the people who attacked you, and when catching them to inflict a severe beating on them.
In the words of the prosecution: "What started as reasonable self defence by Munir Hussain then turned into excessive force by virtue of a sustained attack by Munir, Tokeer and at least two others."
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oneeyed
/////However, it is not a 'reflex' to go and get a couple of friends, find some 'weapons' and chase the people who attacked you, and when catching them to inflict a severe beating on them///
I didn't appreciate your description of what is clear pre-meditation and if this is the case then I clearly must temper my response.
However....the "Fight and Flight" reaction is hormone mediated and cannot easily be controlled.
I do see your point.
/////However, it is not a 'reflex' to go and get a couple of friends, find some 'weapons' and chase the people who attacked you, and when catching them to inflict a severe beating on them///
I didn't appreciate your description of what is clear pre-meditation and if this is the case then I clearly must temper my response.
However....the "Fight and Flight" reaction is hormone mediated and cannot easily be controlled.
I do see your point.
-- answer removed --
Ummm, we obviously think very differently. I don't believe in violence under any circumstances unless in self defence or defending others at the time of the incident. The law may not be perfect, but it is better than lynch mob activities or taking the law into our own hands.
Sqad, you are dead right. It would take a very brave man...........................
Sqad, you are dead right. It would take a very brave man...........................
As always happens when ever this subject is raised, opinion polarises between the 'got what he deserved' and the 'reasonable force / vigilante action'.
I have to repeat, as i always do at this juncture, that laws are what make us civilised, and flawed though our legal system is, it beats 'survival of the fittest' by a country mile.
The legal approach to burglary may well be lax, but that does not excuse or condone premeditated physical violence which cannot be seen in any way as 'defence'.
Of course out instinct is to protect our homes and loved ones, but the law has to be the famework in which we live, and it does not bend to suit any kind of 'justification' - nor should it.
The householder was - as the burlgar - guilty of his offence and punished under the law.
The appropriate level of sentencing for either is another debate entirely.
I have to repeat, as i always do at this juncture, that laws are what make us civilised, and flawed though our legal system is, it beats 'survival of the fittest' by a country mile.
The legal approach to burglary may well be lax, but that does not excuse or condone premeditated physical violence which cannot be seen in any way as 'defence'.
Of course out instinct is to protect our homes and loved ones, but the law has to be the famework in which we live, and it does not bend to suit any kind of 'justification' - nor should it.
The householder was - as the burlgar - guilty of his offence and punished under the law.
The appropriate level of sentencing for either is another debate entirely.
>I have to repeat, as i always do at this juncture, that laws are what make us civilised,
A law which allows scum who have committed 50 previous crimes to walk the streets and terrorize other people.
Surely we need a system where once you have proved you cannot live in "normal" society (committing 50 crimes) each prison sentences gets longer and longer.
Each time you go back to court you have an extra period in prison added on to your sentence. The first crime 1 year extra, the second crime 2 years extra, the third crime 3 years extra and so on.
At least it may keep scum like that off the streets a bit longer.
A law which allows scum who have committed 50 previous crimes to walk the streets and terrorize other people.
Surely we need a system where once you have proved you cannot live in "normal" society (committing 50 crimes) each prison sentences gets longer and longer.
Each time you go back to court you have an extra period in prison added on to your sentence. The first crime 1 year extra, the second crime 2 years extra, the third crime 3 years extra and so on.
At least it may keep scum like that off the streets a bit longer.
-- answer removed --
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