Saturday Punt - 2 November 2024
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fao keyplus90 - your closed Q
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you didn't give me time to reply:
“…..tamborine: (Thu 23:02 07/Jan/10) Speak for yourself keyplus - not ALL men are so ruthless as to divorce a woman for her bank balance.
Keyplus90 (Sat 22:37 09/Jan/10) – Muslims countries have least rate of divorce. Now lets see other side of your coin……”
Muslim divorces are unaccountable; show me evidence of your statistics. Polygamy is accepted in the Koran, who needs divorce if you can have lots of wives. Polygamy leads to men legally neglecting earlier wives & kids, often with little income since many muslim women are not encouraged to earn independently; giving men sole power.
Muslim women are coerced by their men & faith to shroud themselves against the outsiders, to lose their individuality. For me, seeing a covered muslim woman is like looking at a roll of cloth – it has no senses I can relate to. Talking to a pair of eyes is fruitless if I can’t see a facial response. That, ofcourse, is exactly how a muslim man wants me to perceive their females. However here you are, a muslim man, having dialogue with kaffir women.
http://www.theanswerb...Question843395-4.html
“…..tamborine: (Thu 23:02 07/Jan/10) Speak for yourself keyplus - not ALL men are so ruthless as to divorce a woman for her bank balance.
Keyplus90 (Sat 22:37 09/Jan/10) – Muslims countries have least rate of divorce. Now lets see other side of your coin……”
Muslim divorces are unaccountable; show me evidence of your statistics. Polygamy is accepted in the Koran, who needs divorce if you can have lots of wives. Polygamy leads to men legally neglecting earlier wives & kids, often with little income since many muslim women are not encouraged to earn independently; giving men sole power.
Muslim women are coerced by their men & faith to shroud themselves against the outsiders, to lose their individuality. For me, seeing a covered muslim woman is like looking at a roll of cloth – it has no senses I can relate to. Talking to a pair of eyes is fruitless if I can’t see a facial response. That, ofcourse, is exactly how a muslim man wants me to perceive their females. However here you are, a muslim man, having dialogue with kaffir women.
http://www.theanswerb...Question843395-4.html
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Abrahamic faiths in some way condone rape?
Rhubarb rhubarb, all you're expressing is your own prejudices, no matter how finely you word your argument, to condemn a whole creed and then to go on to condemn two others in the same breath due to the actions of three men, is quite frankly ridiculous.
As I'm typing I'm sure you are busily rewriting and rewording the blood libel for a 21st century audience.
Rhubarb rhubarb, all you're expressing is your own prejudices, no matter how finely you word your argument, to condemn a whole creed and then to go on to condemn two others in the same breath due to the actions of three men, is quite frankly ridiculous.
As I'm typing I'm sure you are busily rewriting and rewording the blood libel for a 21st century audience.
The Abrahamic faiths all preach self rightousness and depending on God for guidance. The teachings of the Holy books can be used to justify anything and often have been used in this way.
Their foundational principles are the problem because they all absolve the believer from monitoring their own morality in favor of accepting archane dogma.
They all back the right of the believers to overrun other people with different philosophy and guard against contemplating other perspectives. Their heroic stories all include glorious holy conquests perpetrated through widescale murder.
This foundation is manifested in the behaviours of many believers.
Their foundational principles are the problem because they all absolve the believer from monitoring their own morality in favor of accepting archane dogma.
They all back the right of the believers to overrun other people with different philosophy and guard against contemplating other perspectives. Their heroic stories all include glorious holy conquests perpetrated through widescale murder.
This foundation is manifested in the behaviours of many believers.
Beso – You are not answering my questions because you just can’t. Islam has covering up limits for men too but they are different as men biologically are different. About your example of rape, do you know how many women are raped per day in New York only? What could be reason behind those? Not covering properly or covering properly? Any way still Islam has death sentence for those rapists or yours. What is the punishment in Australia? Six months in five star hotel?
You gave ONE example from Quran where woman’s words are not equal to that of man. Do you think I have never heard that before? Of course you do not know the reasons and I will not waste time on that either as it will not make any difference. In the same Quran there are more verses where man’s words are equal to woman. Then you said,
////As a global society we need to stop exalting these books. They do not hold the way forward for humanity///
Can you give me JUST ONE example of something good for humanity which has not been taken from any religion?
Birdie- Well I am not really bothered about him as I know he is a well known scholar of all the religions.
You gave ONE example from Quran where woman’s words are not equal to that of man. Do you think I have never heard that before? Of course you do not know the reasons and I will not waste time on that either as it will not make any difference. In the same Quran there are more verses where man’s words are equal to woman. Then you said,
////As a global society we need to stop exalting these books. They do not hold the way forward for humanity///
Can you give me JUST ONE example of something good for humanity which has not been taken from any religion?
Birdie- Well I am not really bothered about him as I know he is a well known scholar of all the religions.
Keyplus, let me explain how logical and intelligent morality and reality work.
For a hypothesis to even be considered as a theory it must pass the test when not just a majority nor even "all but one" cases hold. A single verifiable example of a something that contradicts the claim is all that is required to entirely quash its credibility.
Regardless of how many passages where Muhummad (pbuh) promoted equal rights for woman, the fact that she is assigned lesser rights in one place woud be sufficient to show that the morality of the Koran is flawed and hence definitely not the Word of a worthwhile God.
Such is the case with the the holy Hebrew books and all its progeny including the Koran.
Of course I know you have heard it before. The fact that you do not consider it as grounds for doubing the eternal wisdom of Muhammad (pbuh) speak loudly of your character.
The idea that women are raped in New York for "not covering up properly" is a primitive supposition that has been widely discredited. Women are raped in New Youk by men with sexual sociopathies, much of it from twisted and repressed sexuality following the models of Abrahamic religion.
Teaching boys that they are animals and constant lecturing about the need to restain the lust while women are forced to hide themselves from those instincts actually creates the pathology of the rapists such as those in Sydney I mentioned earlier.
Your faith denies the better potential of the human condition and you will definitley never find it through the archaic dogma of Islam. I already live a version of that potential through interaction with both men and woman that neither you nor your regressive Mullahs could ever hope to comprehend,
For a hypothesis to even be considered as a theory it must pass the test when not just a majority nor even "all but one" cases hold. A single verifiable example of a something that contradicts the claim is all that is required to entirely quash its credibility.
Regardless of how many passages where Muhummad (pbuh) promoted equal rights for woman, the fact that she is assigned lesser rights in one place woud be sufficient to show that the morality of the Koran is flawed and hence definitely not the Word of a worthwhile God.
Such is the case with the the holy Hebrew books and all its progeny including the Koran.
Of course I know you have heard it before. The fact that you do not consider it as grounds for doubing the eternal wisdom of Muhammad (pbuh) speak loudly of your character.
The idea that women are raped in New York for "not covering up properly" is a primitive supposition that has been widely discredited. Women are raped in New Youk by men with sexual sociopathies, much of it from twisted and repressed sexuality following the models of Abrahamic religion.
Teaching boys that they are animals and constant lecturing about the need to restain the lust while women are forced to hide themselves from those instincts actually creates the pathology of the rapists such as those in Sydney I mentioned earlier.
Your faith denies the better potential of the human condition and you will definitley never find it through the archaic dogma of Islam. I already live a version of that potential through interaction with both men and woman that neither you nor your regressive Mullahs could ever hope to comprehend,
Thje good in the world did not come from religion. It was conceived by decent people and then used by religion to motivate the masses into the despotic behaviour of the churches and those under their spell.
Only a person in a trace of some kind could look closely at any of the Abrahamic faiths and find nothing but good. It is a farce that is no longer to be tolerated by the people of genuine morality.
Only a person in a trace of some kind could look closely at any of the Abrahamic faiths and find nothing but good. It is a farce that is no longer to be tolerated by the people of genuine morality.
/////The idea that women are raped in New York for "not covering up properly" is a primitive supposition that has been widely discredited. Women are raped in New Youk by men with sexual sociopathies//////
Islam asks men to lower their gaze, women to cover up and still if there is a rape then a death sentence for the rapist.
Don’t you think if that is put in place in New York then you have to be more than Sexual sociopathes to commit a rape?
Lets forget about lowering your gaze (for men) and covering up for women. Would you still rape a woman if you know that you would be put to death?
Islam asks men to lower their gaze, women to cover up and still if there is a rape then a death sentence for the rapist.
Don’t you think if that is put in place in New York then you have to be more than Sexual sociopathes to commit a rape?
Lets forget about lowering your gaze (for men) and covering up for women. Would you still rape a woman if you know that you would be put to death?
-- answer removed --
Keyplus:
I would not rape a woman and I certainly don't need punishment of any kind as a deterrent.
Nor do I need to "lower my gaze" lest I be overcome with lust. I have spent in time naked with naked women yet none of us felt compelled to sexualize the encounter.
I have female friends who I have often engaged in a hello or goodbye hug. Sometimes a kiss too. Nothing sexual about it. Just a manifestation of respectful affection.
I don't expect you to understand as you have no comprehension of genuine respect, particluarly for women. You clearly need the threat of punishment, either immediate or through Allah at your death to repress what you accept as the fundamental nature of being a man. Sex, sex, sex.
This perception leads you to promote the repressive morality of your religion as the only way because you are incapable of envisioning an enlightened morality based upon the rich rewards of fully engaging both women and men emotionally, physically and intellectually without involving sex.
Islam is a quagmire that precludes the development of such a sophisticated morality.
I would not rape a woman and I certainly don't need punishment of any kind as a deterrent.
Nor do I need to "lower my gaze" lest I be overcome with lust. I have spent in time naked with naked women yet none of us felt compelled to sexualize the encounter.
I have female friends who I have often engaged in a hello or goodbye hug. Sometimes a kiss too. Nothing sexual about it. Just a manifestation of respectful affection.
I don't expect you to understand as you have no comprehension of genuine respect, particluarly for women. You clearly need the threat of punishment, either immediate or through Allah at your death to repress what you accept as the fundamental nature of being a man. Sex, sex, sex.
This perception leads you to promote the repressive morality of your religion as the only way because you are incapable of envisioning an enlightened morality based upon the rich rewards of fully engaging both women and men emotionally, physically and intellectually without involving sex.
Islam is a quagmire that precludes the development of such a sophisticated morality.
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