Listener 4068

[starwalker]

This week's offering is "364 263 by Xanthippe"
A straightforward grid fill which now leaves me with the problem of following the instructions, whilst not being an owner of the required medium. Oh well, worse things have happened before.

[7lattens]

Not being particularly artistic, I can only but surmise the feature to be outlined - but how ?

Consecutively ? Is this the same number following itself, or is it a number next to a number plus or minus one from itself - are we talking horizontal adjacent cells or vertical or even diagonally adjacent- and then... are we looking at the centre of each cell or the central point between consecutively numbered cells - perhaps I should have started "Painting with Numbers"when younger !!!

[daagg]

7lattens, if you work out the phrase, then you should have a clear idea of what you are trying to draw. I would join the actual digits themselves, though I think there is (or at least should be) a considerable latitude in the form of the curves. My wife drew two different forms, so mine doesn't look like anything very much.

[Mysterons]

The decoded instruction is quite explicit as to where the eight 'items' (6c and 2s) should join each other. There are obviously two main types of c - I felt vexed about just 2 of the 6, the ones at the ends.

[Apache4D]

Well like others have said I enjoyed this one even though it wasn't the toughest...I thought that the clueing was fair but still allowed room for some pleasant surprises and entertaining methods! The grid was fairly simple to form given the symmetrical nature, and limitations with the one letter removed per column/row, I just pray that my drawing is up to scratch!!

Can I echo some of the earlier advise to the new listener converts, as a recent listener cadet myself (last year was my first, and made it through 18 weeks before life took over)........

Chambers is invaluable and will provide you with the definitions that google does not, always always look up every word that you generate as part of the wordplay however small or seemingly obscure as more often than not Chambers will come up trumps! More often than not the exact words in the wordplay will be within the definition.

Remember that these crosswords are elegantly and impressively structured, indeed engineered, and every word has a role to play in the clue, so if you have made a tenuous deduction that isn't bourne out by the wordplay reanalyse every single word to see if you've missed something.

Archaic, obsolete, and poetic words are often used that chamber's will help you with, I believe the online version has a good search facility but I like the big red thumbable brick next to me :-)

Don't think that you'll never get there, I can spend many an hour just staring at the grid/clues before one small victory will lead to a reassuring and enjoyable run of solves.

I'm running out though I know there are plenty more, above all just ENJOY.....I've had a long break from listeners since the Winter Phoney and am loving the challenge again!!!

What to do till Friday?! Oh dear!!!

[Deviant]

Thanks Eril - I really should have learned to take more notice of puzzle titles by now - though this has to be about the worst I've ever come across!

[catstail]

As a newbie to the Listener can I say thank you for your encouragement. I have read a few "how to solve cryptics" books and am slowly learning crossword English. I still have a lot to learn and any advice is always welcome.

[Apache4D]

Apologies for the repost and for those that know about it, but the Times Online ran a series of user guide articles on The Listener, which can be found in the archives. It is 25 parts long and when I started found it an interesting read.

The first part can be found here

http://entertainment....es/article1544042.ece

Apache4D

[bobbycollins]

I have one but can't use it - had to ask the wife what the phrase meant.

I know what to draw but beggared if I can see any discernible shape.

Greetings, all

[Mysterons]

It reminds me of the old joke:

What's brown and sticky ?

[Clamzy]

I don't know Mysterons- what is brown and sticky?

[daagg]

A stick !

Since people are posting helpful advice here, I thought it might be worth telling newcomers that the Listener website publishes details of the wordplay for each answer, normally at 4pm on the Friday before the solution is in the paper. Look under the "Detailed solutions" option on the front page.

[catstail]

Thank you for the links everyone.

[segue]

easylistener, catstail and others, welcome and enjoy from a fellow almost newbie. Enjoy without obsessing is the best way to go I find; I certainly pick and choose and you will quickly identify which puzzles are more or less doable (cold solving and doable don't often go together I find). I completed one in 2009 (the aforementioned and brilliant Solitaire by Xanthippe) and something in single digits last year, of which a couple were mathematicals (which come out at the end of Feb, May, Aug, Nov). The red brick is useful and the definitions are usually pretty precise so you can be sure when you've got the right word; there are some good websites for synonyms, anagrams, missing letters etc.; and last but not least these threads sometimes provide a little impetus without stopping you feeling you've conquered a puzzle yourself.

And if I can briefly go off-topic, consider these snow days as payback for all those risk assessments we teachers have to fill in, although I would much rather see the poor dears learn to cope with a little adverse weather. And north London seems to have had the least snow in the country. Happy New Year all...

[Ruthrobin]

Another site that is very interesting to follow is Derek Harrison's message board. http://boards2go.com/...d.cgi?&user=dharrison It is the province of the purists and experts, many of whom highly disapprove of the existence of the Answerbank. There is no mention at all of the current Listener until after its solution appears, but then there is often a lively discussion and several blogs written by setters and solvers (look at 'George versus the Listener' where George has a running battle with the Listener, and 'Listen With Others' - even contribute your own blog of your success or failure - it will be welcomed!). You can learn a lot from the regular discussions of features in crosswords (like a current discussion of the place of 'to' in a clue). Only some of the contributors to that board come here - many are aiming at an 'all clear record' of 52 correct solves in a year - a very different world from that of most of us relative newcomers here - and feel it is not ethical to get hints (even very slight ones) here.

[easylistener]

Easylistener here again. Thanks everyone. I didn't give up. I bought myself the Red Brick and have been rattling away with the grid entries. But still stuck on the Eagles and Judge clues. All the advice is so helpful. Thanks!

[twencelas]

For the eagles one think of a reversed abbr. for "are" followed by a shortened word for a shelter (drop last letter)
The judge one is actually a french word (4 letters), mercifully in Chambers for the purist, (last 2 words of the clue define) formed from following the instructions of the first 5 words.

[easylistener]

Thanks twencelas. Got it now. Finished the whole lot - decoding, drawing, phrase - the lot! But still don't understand why the number 5 is missing in the grid.

[daagg]

I think the '5' is omitted to make sure you draw two separate curves.

[Mysterons]

daagg, I happened across an example in this week's Everyman crossword:

Arab fell in dock (4)

Shall keep on the lookout for a quadruple !

[Mysterons]

...didn't have far to look - also in this week's Observer:

"Garden produce, money matter ? Nonsense ! (5) (from Azed 1965)