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Should western entertainers respect the culture of country they are appearing in, and alter their performances so as not to offend?
Should western entertainers respect the culture of country they are appearing in, and alter their performances so as not to offend?
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Actually - everyone is making very valid points re: Jim Davidson/Bernard Manning.
No-one ever picketed their gigs, or tried to have them banned. It's simply because people found their brand of humour offensive...in the same way that many people find Ricky Gervais, Jim Jefferies and (especially) Frankie Boyle offensive.
The other problem that BM and JD had is that their brand of humour suddenly seemed very tired by the mid 80s because younger people were turning to alternative comedy - the only members of the older generation of stand-up to survive we're those who didn't rely on race jokes. That's why Frankie Howerd, Morecombe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and Jimmy Tarbuck continued to work.
No-one ever picketed their gigs, or tried to have them banned. It's simply because people found their brand of humour offensive...in the same way that many people find Ricky Gervais, Jim Jefferies and (especially) Frankie Boyle offensive.
The other problem that BM and JD had is that their brand of humour suddenly seemed very tired by the mid 80s because younger people were turning to alternative comedy - the only members of the older generation of stand-up to survive we're those who didn't rely on race jokes. That's why Frankie Howerd, Morecombe & Wise, The Two Ronnies and Jimmy Tarbuck continued to work.
Re Roy 'Chubby' Brown do you really think he is bothered that some people might find him offensive, when his shows still receive full houses.
An artists act should be governed by the opinions of the public, not by certain groups or individuals who think their act is offensive, an artist will be able to judge the reaction of the general public by the takings at the box office.
A point in question is the fact that if such TV shows as the Black & White Minstrels, Alf Garnett or Love Thy Neighbour were to be screened once again, they would prove very popular.
An artists act should be governed by the opinions of the public, not by certain groups or individuals who think their act is offensive, an artist will be able to judge the reaction of the general public by the takings at the box office.
A point in question is the fact that if such TV shows as the Black & White Minstrels, Alf Garnett or Love Thy Neighbour were to be screened once again, they would prove very popular.
"A point in question is the fact that if such TV shows as the Black & White Minstrels, Alf Garnett or Love Thy Neighbour were to be screened once again, they would prove very popular"
You cannot claim that as 'a fact'. That is a guess at best.
Are you seriously saying that if The Black & White Minstrel Show was put up against The X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing or The Voice, it would be a ratings winner?
Each generation reinvents television and reinvents film, and reinvents books to their own liking. You can revive formulas, but you cannot successfully simply rerun old telly and expect the new generation to watch it.
It doen't work that way.
Another thing...Love Thy Neighbour wasn't in the same league as Til Death Us Do Part. Johnny Speight is on record as being disappointed that so many people laughed WITH the Alf Garnett character rather than AT him (which is what he wanted to achieve).
Love Thy Neighbour, like Mind Your Language, Robin's Nest, My Wife Next Door and Metal Mickey was just a run of the mill ITV comedy with no real lasting value.
In fact, the only ITV comedy frmo that period which is still shown (because it's still extremely funny) is George & Mildred.
You cannot claim that as 'a fact'. That is a guess at best.
Are you seriously saying that if The Black & White Minstrel Show was put up against The X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing or The Voice, it would be a ratings winner?
Each generation reinvents television and reinvents film, and reinvents books to their own liking. You can revive formulas, but you cannot successfully simply rerun old telly and expect the new generation to watch it.
It doen't work that way.
Another thing...Love Thy Neighbour wasn't in the same league as Til Death Us Do Part. Johnny Speight is on record as being disappointed that so many people laughed WITH the Alf Garnett character rather than AT him (which is what he wanted to achieve).
Love Thy Neighbour, like Mind Your Language, Robin's Nest, My Wife Next Door and Metal Mickey was just a run of the mill ITV comedy with no real lasting value.
In fact, the only ITV comedy frmo that period which is still shown (because it's still extremely funny) is George & Mildred.
sp1814
but you cannot successfully simply rerun old telly and expect the new generation to watch it. [i
As I have said before the whole world does not revolve around the young, there are very many of the older generation who would love such shows to be repeated.
The young have many outlets for their entertainment many choose to go drinking, clubbing, the cinema, playing their games machines, watching DVDs, or just partying,whereas for many housebound old folk television occupies a great deal of their leisure time.
] In fact, the only ITV comedy frmo that period which is still shown (because it's still extremely funny) is George & Mildred. [i]
Do you really believe that is the reason sp, or could it be that we are only allowed to watch certain shows, because those with the power allow us to?
but you cannot successfully simply rerun old telly and expect the new generation to watch it. [i
As I have said before the whole world does not revolve around the young, there are very many of the older generation who would love such shows to be repeated.
The young have many outlets for their entertainment many choose to go drinking, clubbing, the cinema, playing their games machines, watching DVDs, or just partying,whereas for many housebound old folk television occupies a great deal of their leisure time.
] In fact, the only ITV comedy frmo that period which is still shown (because it's still extremely funny) is George & Mildred. [i]
Do you really believe that is the reason sp, or could it be that we are only allowed to watch certain shows, because those with the power allow us to?
AOG
The world has changed since 1972. There are some programmes (particularly those written by, or involving Barry Cryer) which are regarded as classics, but there are many which simply don't translate and wouldn't be seen as funny any more because comedy (especially) is so fast changing.
In the same way that the world of 1972 would be horrified by teh scatalogical humour of Nighty Night, Family Guy, American Dad and the Mighty Boosh, the audience of 2012 would be left stony-faced at the humour of Mind Your Language, The Liver Birds and Man About The House.
You'll notice that the comedies that have lasting appeal are those that rely more on the 'com' than the 'sit'. Croft and Perry got the balance right, which is why you can still watch Are You Being Served, Hi De Hi and Dad's Army because the comedy is timeless.
Race and sexual relations have changed so much since the 1970s, that Mind Your Language and Love Thy Neighbour have become period pieces, reflecting a world that doesn't exist any more.
The world has changed since 1972. There are some programmes (particularly those written by, or involving Barry Cryer) which are regarded as classics, but there are many which simply don't translate and wouldn't be seen as funny any more because comedy (especially) is so fast changing.
In the same way that the world of 1972 would be horrified by teh scatalogical humour of Nighty Night, Family Guy, American Dad and the Mighty Boosh, the audience of 2012 would be left stony-faced at the humour of Mind Your Language, The Liver Birds and Man About The House.
You'll notice that the comedies that have lasting appeal are those that rely more on the 'com' than the 'sit'. Croft and Perry got the balance right, which is why you can still watch Are You Being Served, Hi De Hi and Dad's Army because the comedy is timeless.
Race and sexual relations have changed so much since the 1970s, that Mind Your Language and Love Thy Neighbour have become period pieces, reflecting a world that doesn't exist any more.
sp1814
/// but there are many which simply don't translate and wouldn't be seen as funny any more because comedy (especially) is so fast changing. ///
How can you possibly know this, since we have never been given the chance to prove their renewed popularity by the viewing figures received?
The reason those other shows are a continued success is because we have been allowed to watch them again, and they have been proven successful by their viewing figures.
/// but there are many which simply don't translate and wouldn't be seen as funny any more because comedy (especially) is so fast changing. ///
How can you possibly know this, since we have never been given the chance to prove their renewed popularity by the viewing figures received?
The reason those other shows are a continued success is because we have been allowed to watch them again, and they have been proven successful by their viewing figures.
AOG, when you were young, did people made jokes about Jews, jokes based on a stereotype that Jews were cheating or dishonest, inter alia? They certainly did in my time. Wouldn't those jokes would be found a bit too much for you now to laugh at? Indeed, they used to make jokes about Scotsmen; whatever happened to those? The demise of these could be 'political correctness' were it not that the term hadn't been invented, or made popular, at the time of it. The world had changed.
Jokes based on the colour of someone's skin or supposed characteristic of their race; what in the old days were called 'sambo' jokes; persisted longer. Jim Davidson had an act which was largely based on the stupidity or accent of his fictional black West Indian friend. The 'stupidity' jokes might have worked were the 'friend' white (Policeman to man " Your rear light isn't working" Man kicks rear light; it works. Policeman "Very clever. Now go and kick the tax disc ...") but the audience found that the racial element made it funnier, which Davidson depended on.
Your premiss that old shows would attract the same big audiences as they did, depends on the modern audience being of the same as previous ones in finding them funny . Tastes and times change. To the extent that the shows depended on skin colour or supposed racial characteristics, or homosexuality, they would not to be the taste of the modern audience any more than jokes about cheating or dishonest Jews would be.
Jokes based on the colour of someone's skin or supposed characteristic of their race; what in the old days were called 'sambo' jokes; persisted longer. Jim Davidson had an act which was largely based on the stupidity or accent of his fictional black West Indian friend. The 'stupidity' jokes might have worked were the 'friend' white (Policeman to man " Your rear light isn't working" Man kicks rear light; it works. Policeman "Very clever. Now go and kick the tax disc ...") but the audience found that the racial element made it funnier, which Davidson depended on.
Your premiss that old shows would attract the same big audiences as they did, depends on the modern audience being of the same as previous ones in finding them funny . Tastes and times change. To the extent that the shows depended on skin colour or supposed racial characteristics, or homosexuality, they would not to be the taste of the modern audience any more than jokes about cheating or dishonest Jews would be.
Entertainers like Lady Gaga are prompting change in these primitive religious cultures they visit by demonatrating that women are choosing not to be bound by repressive misogynist attitudes.
Rock and Roll did the same in the Westand entertainers will continue to do it.
Good on her I say. Hopefully some fcukwit won't kill her like what happened to John Lennon.
Rock and Roll did the same in the Westand entertainers will continue to do it.
Good on her I say. Hopefully some fcukwit won't kill her like what happened to John Lennon.
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