Would You Dare To Confront Some Of Today's Yobs?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2293193/Face-grandfather-savagely-beaten-yobs-daring-confront-vandalised-local-park.html

What causes 'some' of the youth of today to be so violent, I say 'today' because no matter what some of you might say, it never happened when I was a youth?

[jim360]

Well if that is the case then bad luck me. I'd like to think it wasn't. Bloody typical.

In the end I don't have a problem (well, I do because it's bad for me) with anyone who says that "things were better so many years ago" if it's backed up by hard facts. I do have a problem with (a) the use of the word never in the OP, though you do too so we are agreeing there, and (b) "if the stats disagree with me then they are wrong". Stats are based on a large sample size than this thread so are more likely if taken properly to reflect what goes on as a whole. Hopefully. So all I'm saying really is that while your own experiences may be true I'd rather reserve judgement until I have seen nationwide crime statistics over the last century or so. I hope this is not unreasonable a position.

[naomi24]

Jim, //Well if that is the case then bad luck me.//

Not bad luck. Just a sign of more violent times.

As for taking crime statistics at face value, there's enough evidence to know that we shouldn't - but, of course, that's your choice.

Must go - supper's ready. Bye for now.

[jim360]

I don't take them at face value and anyway, as I said, they appear to support the claims that over 40 years things have got worse, even if over the last ten years or so things have got better.

[emmie]

not sure the parents of the dead teens would agree, but that's another matter.

[daisya]

VHG @ 12:25 has hit the nail on the head. Why oh why do parents have to do what their children demand? Are they afraid of losing street cred or something? Children are not treated as such nowadays, there's no distinction, parents what their children as friends....jeez...what a world we have created, no discipline and no rules as long as children get their own way. No wonder the world as a violent and uncaring as it is and a lot of parents endorse it with the way they treat their offspring..... I despair.

[askyourgran]

Nowadays people are more feral, no-one went out armed with a knife or deliberately kicked someones head in and certainly not females. Two girls mugged an old friend of mine ten years ago, she eventually died of brain injuries after being cared for in a hospice for a few years. Of course there were bad 'uns' but the upbringing in the 40's 50's and 60's was much stricter, everyone knew everyone else in the street and the community was naturally stronger then. There were no expensive electronic toys and drugs were not as prevalent. The local policeman would gave a few backhanders to anyone he caught wrongdoing and no-one thought to make a case of it. More likely to get another one from ones parents. TV and films were much tamer the violence now is addictive to some young people. It may sound like a fairy story to younger people but it was true, I could walk home from a dance or film and be OK not worried about some drugged up idiot accosting me. Now I wouldn't go far at night.

[daisya]

Well said AYG...very true but words that are probably ridiculed by some youngsters today.

[jim360]

Well having argued and argued basically over how we reach conclusions, rather than the conclusions themselves...

I'm going to argue only about violet video games being anything to do with this. Don't buy that for a second, I think it has to do with parenting more. Strong parents = video games are treated as just that, games. Mind you, anything too graphic is just disturbing to me so... People who watch violent films and play violent games go out and do violent stuff only if they were never taught the difference so again it comes down to parenting. And it does seem to me that there's been a sort of war on discipline lately and I wonder if people haven't realised the consequences of that, parents moving too much away from discipline as they are scared of the consequences if they do. Sometimes those consequences are merely imagined but even so that fear of being punished for discipline isn't healthy and can just lead to a child who does not fear the consequences of wrongdoing.

[emmie]

i agree about the consequences of lax or no parenting, or treating children like your friends, that isn't right, you need to be the parent, give love and good guidance. It doesn't mean to say they may not go off the rails, but they have more chance of doing so if you just leave them to their own devices from early on in their lives.

[seadogg]

Basically Jim, kids like to know where the boundaries are and if parents or teachers don't show them we all have a problem. In our lifeboat house its not uncommon for teachers to stand around chatting while kids mess about so its up to voluntary staff to sort them. Where teachers are firm its easy to get on with the job.

[jim360]

Boundaries indeed - I'm thankful for parenting that established that. I wonder too how many children don't respect teachers because their parents don't, or is it just because children don't understand what the teachers are trying to do? I certainly didn't at the time.

[Khandro]

Never trust a statistic that you haven't made up yourself.

[horselady]

In the 60's, in my mis-spent youth I tagged along with a gang of "Rockers" and we certainly had some interesting times, but not one single one of them would ever, for one moment have stooped to beating up an elderly man, or harming a female.

[anotheoldgit]

Having only read some of the posts, i have come to the conclusion that some cannot use their logic and realise that when I said "it never happened when I was a youth" was just a figure of speech and not to be taken logically.

Anyone would be a complete idiot to believe that the past was completely crime free, but then it must be obvious to some that I was not suggesting it was, but only took up my 'figure of speech so as to ridicule my argument.

Yes they have even trawled through the back streets of Victorian London, in some pathetic way to come up with other examples, one even researched infamous crimes such as the Krays, Haigh, Heath, but missed out Cristie.

Why does he think these have gone down in the annuals of history? It was because of their rarity, how many names of 'today's' numerous killer's will be remembered even after a week these days, unless of course they carry a racial attachment as in the Lawrence case, in fact most of their crimes do not even reach the headlines.

Footnote for those easily confused: My reference to 'today's' numerous killers doesn't mean those of TODAY (Friday), just so there won't be any confusion.

[LazyGun]

@AoG - What is pathetic is your continual definitive assertions in the absence of evidence, and your rejection of the evidence when it refutes your nonsense.

None here are mind readers - if you want them to understand your point, make it clearly.

Read again your OP - "What causes 'some' of the youth of today to be so violent, I say 'today' because no matter what some of you might say, it never happened when I was a youth?"

No matter what you say, it never happened when i was a youth sounds nothing like a figure of speech and much more like your imposition of reality.

And those pesky critics - using logic to refute your posts. Whatever next? Will they start using rationality and reason? How very dare they!

[anotheoldgit]

LazyGun

I apologise, obviously I was completely wrong in assuming the intelligence of some on this site.

[jim360]

I don't see why you can criticise us for being thick. You said "It never happened when I was a youth" and say you meant "It happened less often when I was a youth". Why not just put down the second line? Saves the confusion.

[Kromovaracun]

"Why does he think these have gone down in the annuals of history?"

Well, actually, some of them haven't and have largely been forgotten.

"Anyone would be a complete idiot to believe that the past was completely crime free"

Agreed.

The point is, it's not a little fallacious to point to a modern-day horror story like the one in your OP and loftily claim that 'no matter what some of you might say, it never happened when I was a youth', when some of your contemporaries were quite happy to commit serious acts of violence.