Calls For The Sacking Of Richard Littlejohn.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2013/mar/22/richard-littlejohn-transgender

Regardless of what some may think of the Daily Mail or their columnist Richard Littlejohn, should he be forced to resign over this matter?

[Khandro]

Ann; I think your point about how ridiculous and tragic some of these poor unfortunate people are, is quite relevant. I think teaching children looking like Widow Twanky does not give out the correct persona required for the relevance of a teacher. Little wonder as 237SJ tells us, statistics show how many of these unfortunates end up committing suicide.

[andy-hughes]

I read the Daily Mail every day, and I never read Littlejohn's column because I find him abrasive and unpleasant - which is his stance, and I choose not to indulge him in his platform.

On this issue, I feel he was essentially correct in his view

It would have been better for all concerned, the individual involved, the children, staff and parents, if the teacher had not returned to the same school.

In some situations, it is important to ok at the circumstances, and look at the relevent pluses and minuses involved. The teacher may have a legal right to return to the school after gender reassignment, but that has to be balanced against the circumstances and the effects on her, and the other people involved.

Transgender surgery, and adapting to live afterwards must be incredibly difficult, without compounding the issues by making life difficult and uncomfortable for all concerned.

Yes, in an ideal world, this teacher would have been able to return and carry on with a new identity, but who can honestly say that this is likely in such an environment? We have to look at the situation how it actually is going to be, not how we would like it to be.

I think on this occasion, the exercise of right of return was misguided and would lead to all levels of issues, some obvious, some less so, but all avoidable by a change of location to accompany a change of gender and identity.

To return to Littlejohn, I think his point was valid, although expressed with his typical sledgehammer approach. I don't believe that any transgender person undertaking this procedure is not aware of the attitudes of people they live and work with, and knows the problems to be faced. I would suggest that sniping from a right-wing columnist would be taken as read (pardon the pun) and could be discounted as irrelavent in the wider scheme of things.

This woman's apparent suicide is a tragedy, but blame cannot be laid on one individual voicing the opinions of many. So no, Littlejohn should not be sacked - he is what he is, and I am sure he can live with his piece on the subject, and does not feel that it led directly to the tragic actions that have followed.

[anotheoldgit]

em10

Been watching too many episodes of the Midwife em, but why should there be any need for terminations these days, with all the contraceptive methods available today?

I mean don't they issue them out free of charge these days without asking the parents consent? and I do believe in these modern sex education lessons they even practice the application of one type.

[anotheoldgit]

Thank you all for a mainly well conducted and enjoyable debate.

[Bramleyboy]

I have never heard of Littlejohn and do not read his paper. I do not think that he is in any way liable for what happened to this unfortunate being. I do not understand the people who 'loathe' people like journalists. England has become a very unhappy country and will get worse. We all have to get on.

[sp1814]

AOG

The commitment of schools to get over their 'modern thinking' indoctrination of our young is something that we should all be wary of.[i

That's a completely different topic.

This story isn't about education. It's about a teacher who has had a gender reassignment operation.

It's about someone who through no fault of her own was thrust into the glare of national publicity.

It's about someone who has now apparently and tragically taken her own life.

I suspect the children she taught will find [i]that] substantially more difficult to deal with than 'Sir' becoming a 'Miss', would you not agree?

[ChillDoubt]

I should imagine there are demands for the sacking of Littlejohn happen on a weekly basis to one degree or another.
This will be no different and invariably, water off a duck's back.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

/// This story isn't about education. It's about a teacher who has had a gender reassignment operation. ///

It has everything to do with the schools decision on how they handled this delicate situation, instead of trying to get their PC method of indoctrinating the very young children into the complex world of certain gender issues, they should have thought of the children first and advised this teacher to take up a position in another school were he/she wasn't known.

[Kromovaracun]

But "gender issues", whether you have them or not, are a part of life - it's no more complicated or corrosive to innocence than issues like, say, death. Does this mean children should be shielded? I don't see why. It just means they need help to understand it.

[anotheoldgit]

Kromovaracun

They should first be allowed to be children, child years are very short lived and the time will come soon enough to fill their little heads, with the complexities of the adult world.

[Kromovaracun]

But children who own pets or have elderly relatives (or even go outside at all) often end up being introduced to such complex issues as death quite early on. I certainly was, and having grown up and learned of some of the grotesque lies that are told to some children to 'protect their innocence', I'm extremely grateful to my parents for presenting it to me as it was.

It was the same when in the street I saw someone who was severely disfigured, mentally ill or otherwise incapacitated in a way that I didn't understand - they just told me in the simplest language they could what I was seeing, I'm glad they did, and if ever I have children I will strive to do the same. On average, their 'little heads' normally prove quite capable of understanding it.

And as an aside, I don't remember other children in my childhood being particularly sweet and innocent creatures at all. I often wonder where this idea comes from.

[Zeuhl]

/their 'modern thinking' indoctrination of our young/

what would that be aog?

that some people are different
that they are still entitled to sympathy, respect and kindness
that a person will still retain their underlying characteristics (good and bad) regardless of gender reassignment

I can't see anything there to be 'wary of'
In fact, the children missed outon an opportunity for a valuable life-lesson

And it is foolish to imagine that young children can be kept in some sort of sanitised plastic bubble

/They should first be allowed to be children, child years are very short lived and the time will come soon enough to fill their little heads, with the complexities of the adult world./

So aog, what happens when your idealised, homogenised class are confronted with one of their classmates telling them in the playground (without supervision or guidance) about their uncle who's become an aunt or something similar?

[Kromovaracun]

^Agreed. Or, more broadly, when they encounter anything unusual, different, difficult, or complicated about the human species.

[Sharingan]

I don't like the man or any of his opinions that I have read so far about anything and I think his newspaper is inflammatory and antagonistic but however horrible he may be, or wrong his opinions are someone undergoing gender reassignment would have to be terribly naieve to think somewhere someone would not have an immense problem with them simply because they are bigoted and old fashioned. I can't therefore honestly see a direct link between what was written and this person's sad suicide. I'd like to see everyone more tolerant of gender issues but should he resign over what he's said, probably no for me.

[Sharingan]

One further point, I think what Kromavaracun said is absolutely right, children need honesty about everything or they are unprepared for life.

[murraymints]

No....bring back littlejohn and stop this witch hunt...

[humbersloop]

so the apparent suicide of someone who happens to be transgender, regardless of their occupation, and whether they have friends or family that their death may matter to, becomes the topic of an "are you for or against richard littlejohn" thread?

And let's just throw in the grauniad vs daily wail angle to really get them going.

So much better engineered than of late