Disrespectful Cartoon.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article8566635.ece/ALTERNATES/w620/Daily-cartoon-20130410.jpg

Would disrespectful cartoons such as this be allowed if other political dignities such as Nelson Mandela happened to die?

[nannybooby]

Its not funny its plain rude and disrespectful to her family.

[Zeuhl]

/not exactly peaceful thought was it/

em

if you read your link I think you'll find it dispels the 'Mandela is a terrorist' smear.

/The tactics were initially geared solely towards sabotage/

that was NMs principle.

/but eventually expanded to include urban guerrilla warfare. Notable among these were the 8 January 1982 attack on the Koeberg nuclear power plant near Cape Town, coinciding with the 70th anniversary of the formation of the ANC, the Church Street bombing on 20 May 1983, killing 19 civilians, and the 14 June 1986 car-bombing of Magoo's Bar in Durban, in which 3 innocent people were killed and 73 injured. /

So they were 1982 and 1983

NM was in gaol from 1963 to 1990 so not actually involved

[emmie]

A Xhosa born to the Thembu royal family, Mandela attended Fort Hare University and the University of Witwatersrand, studying law. Living in Johannesburg townships and becoming involved in anti-colonial politics, he joined the ANC, becoming a founding member of its Youth League. When the National Party government implemented apartheid in 1948, he rose to prominence in the ANC's 1952 Defiance Campaign, being elected president of the Transvaal ANC branch and overseeing the 1955 Congress of the People. Working as a lawyer, he was repeatedly arrested for seditious activities and with the ANC leadership stood on the Treason Trial from 1956 to 1961, being found not guilty. Although initially committed to non-violent protest, in association with the South African Communist Party he co-founded the militant Umkhonto we Sizwe (MK) in 1961, leading a bombing campaign against government targets. In 1962 he was arrested and convicted of sabotage and conspiracy to overthrow the government, being sentenced to life imprisonment.

[emmie]

i tried copying just a small part of that piece, but it gave the whole lot. but last two sentences are relevant.

[emmie]

i already said if you care to look, that i believed and still believe that apartheid was appalling. He shouldn't have gone to prison, but he is no more a saint than i am. At least let's stop all this nonsense of veneration, beatification of our leaders, their leaders and so on, it's stupid.

[emmie]

i recall someone said about the IRA bombers that they were justified in their actions, no it isn't, dialogue is, and usually wins out over killing any day of the week, pretty much like Al Quaeda, The Taliban, that one day soon, it will have to be dialogue, because this killing isn't getting them or us anywhere.

[Zeuhl]

/At least let's stop all this nonsense of veneration, beatification of our leaders, their leaders and so on, it's stupid. /

Totally agree em

I think the point on Mandela that we are actually agreeing on is that he was guilty of 'sabotage' but was always opposed to causing civilian casualties - unlike Sinn Fein

[emmie]

but he may well have done, or caused it by being one of the founding members and terrorism never gets it's way, not in the longer term.

[BilSuth]

Thankfully, he outlived her. She embarrassed Britain endlessly in the Commonwealth with her blocking any attempt to end apartheid. Another part of her stubborn prejudices to her lasting shame.

[LazyGun]

All very fine and noble sentiment Em. But sometimes, when violence and injustice are routinely meted out, when the injustice is enshrined in law, the arguments are reduced to meek submission or fight.

The danger with fighting is that you can lose control and lose direction, which is what ultimately happened with MK when they started to adopt a policy of landmines and bombing of "prestige" targets with the consequent loss of civilian life.

And of course Mandela, although a founding father of the movement, was locked up at that time on Robben Island.

Its worth reading Mandelas own words during the Rivonia Trial back in 1963-64. on his motivations about forming MK ( from wiki)

""At the beginning of June 1961, after a long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I, and some colleagues, came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.

This conclusion was not easily arrived at. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle, and to form Umkhonto we Sizwe. We did so not because we desired such a course, but solely because the government had left us with no other choice. In the Manifesto of Umkhonto published on 16 December 1961, which is exhibit AD, we said:

'The time comes in the life of any nation when there remain only two choices - submit or fight. That time has now come to South Africa. We shall not submit and we have no choice but to hit back by all means in our power in defence of our people, our future, and our freedom.'"

[emmie]

according to that piece this was some time before he went to prison, but let us not go on with this, he served all those years, came out and led his country, it's a great pity that those who have followed on don't seem to be in his league as statesman and leader. I admire him, but like the unedifying nonsense posted about Saint Margaret, and i was a fan, is absurd.

[mikey4444]

I'm not sure who this cartoonist as I rarely read the Independent ( if I want to be bored I'll stare at the wallpaper as its cheaper )

But he could give Steve Bell a run for his money it would seem !

Well done !