Shisha Bars

[chrisgel]

Are flourishing in Manchester and presumably in other areas of the country.
Councils do not have the power to close them and can only fine them, which is not a deterrent because they are so profitable.
It seems that when the "Smoking Ban" was being drawn up no-one had the foresight to see that, with the immigration of people from the Middle East and Asia, this might cause problems.
What should be done?

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/council-pleads-government-help-tackle-5102085

[LazyGun]

@NJ That is what I had assumed. I do not understand why the council wish to create special amendments or new legislation specifically for shisha bars. As a repeat offender continually being taken to court and fined £2,500 I cannot imagine many businesses being able to tolerate that expenditure.

In fact, hypothetically speaking,assuming they were guilty of contravening the current no-smoking regulations, couldn't they effectively fine them the maximum for each day they are trading and contravening those regulations?

[Peter Pedant]

.

Sheesh - what a crowd of whining kill-joys.

It is not as tho droogd 16 y olds are blowing cannabis smoke into your face.

I dont regard sheesha bars as a big deal along with
dying squaddies in Brecon - thousands of deaths avoidable in our hospitals
civil war in Dafur etc etc
world peace in danger

I mean - c'mon !

[New Judge]

Not sure about that, LG, but the enforcement officers could certainly visit every day, gain evidence of contravention and simply issue a summons for each transgression. I also think that issuing fixed penalties (or summonses to persistent offenders) to the establishments' customers will have an effect. It is unlikely that they (either the proprietors or customers) will be fined the maximum amount (especially if they plead guilty) but the court would take into account their finances and should impose increasing fines as the offences persist.

There seems to be no will to properly enforce the law if there is the faintest hint that "minorities" of one sort or another are involved. Instead of whinging, whining, ringing his hands and making inaccurate statements Councillor Karney would do better to consult the council’s legal advisors and get the matter dealt with under the existing law. The trouble is that enforcement officers are being asked to deal with what is, for them, an unprecedented problem and it seems they lack the nous to think beyond their usual processes and procedures.

The 2006 Act makes no distinction between licensed and unlicensed premises. In fact, as I said, no types of premises are specifically mentioned at all. Councils have seen fit to use licensing as a weapon against persistent offenders because it suits them and it’s easy meat. But they have an obligation to properly enforce the law in all premises covered by the Act.

[ichkeria]

No one has come up with a definitive answer as to the health risks posed to third parties posed by hookah pipes. I'd have thought that mattered more merely than a blanket enforcement of a ban on tobacco.

[New Judge]

No it’s not top priority when compared to other more serious matters, PP. But councils are tasked with enforcing a fairly important piece of legislation and they should do so effectively.

The issue of whether hookahs pose a risk to third parties is irrelevant, ichkeria. By their nature any such studies are likely to be ambiguous at best and possibly contentious and/or misleading depending on who sponsored and prepared them. The law is that tobacco must not be smoked in indoor public places. That is what Parliament has decided and that is what local councils should enforce.

[FredPuli43]

Don't get an "minorities" in Newmarket, apart from stable lads to the Sheikh, the Sheikh and his relatives, and one jockey. None of them, for various reasons, are outside our shisha Turkish restaurant, which never gets prosecuted because the Council don't see an offence.

Can't see that Manchester turns a blind eye on "ethnic" grounds. If they do, then they are doing nothing for interracial relations.

[ichkeria]

I think there's a bit of mischief-making going on here. I'm all in favour of people being allowed to smoke tobacco in public places provided it doesn't damage other people's health or cause unpleasantness to other patrons. Shisha bars are potentially different. Although technically they are breaking a law saying you shouldn't "smoke tobacco" in public, the health issue is most definitely relevant. I fear there's an element of "if I'm not allowed to smoke a fag in my pub then no beardy foreigner is jolly well going to have his fun either."
Tell me I'm wrong :-)

[LazyGun]

@ Ichkeria

You might be interested in the CDC assessment of Shisha pipes, Ich. In some respects, they could well be considered a greater risk than cigarettes.

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/tobacco_industry/hookahs/

[Eve]

It seems to be big business round here. I live right by the Curry Mile in Manchester and it's full of them, bit of a local joke that's it's now more the Shisha Mile.

Since a previous hoohah in the local press some see through plastic canopy (though down to the ground) type covers have been put up outside some of the shisha bars which I assume is to encourage people to want to sit outside though I can't say I ever see many people actually sat outside.

If they wanted to make it "look" less like offending racial sensibilities then they probably should have cracked down on it straight away, now there are people aggrieved that it is unfair that the shisha smoking is not being clamped down on like normal cigarette smoking. This row seems to flare up every now and again locally.