Should A Person With Learning Difficulties Be Sterilised?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10247073/Man-with-learning-difficulties-to-be-sterilised-in-unprecedented-court-ruling.html

If both parties (as in this case) have learning difficulties, why should just the man be sterilised?

Note it was a female judge who made this ruling, imagine the outcry had a male judge made the same ruling, but focused on just the female?

[ummmm]

Look at Forest Gump :-)

[FredPuli43]

AOG, why do we have to imagine anything? What other situations would your imagination have us consider? Your post is, supposedly, about this one case. Has it been misunderstood?

[Zacs-Master]

He's just moving the goalposts again fred, as his question has been criticised.

[Octavius]

To be fair he is (I think) suggesting that there would be outrageous outcry if a male judge ordered the sterilisation of a female with learning difficulties.

I'm not sure that
a) its at all relevant, and
b) that gender is at all relevant (for judges or the judged)

As said in the article:

""......the court does not make such an order lightly, conscious as it is that for the court to make an order permitting the lifelong removal of a person’s fertility for non-medical reasons requires strong justification."

[LazyGun]

@AoG You still have not said what you think should happen.

You still have not explained your remarks about the female judge. Do you see an anti-male conspiracy?

You fail to respond to the points raised by several posters here - that this mans has stated he wants no more children.

And your nonsense about this being a step toward forced sterilisation of the disabled is just that - nonsense. And it was more than a little hyperbolic of you to suggest that this is some kind of step toward a Nazi solution. Gratuitously offensive, I would say.

Whats your solution, AoG? Allow them to procreate without hinderance? Put the resulting kids up for adoption/fostering? Force the woman to have an abortion if/when she gets pregnant?

[FredPuli43]

For your information, AOG, Dr Ashok Roy, a psychiatrist, interviewed on Channel 4, acknowledged that there have been several cases of women who have such a disability being sterilised. This is simply the first man to be subject to such an order. The women have been sterilised because they are vulnerable to others, have no understanding of the consequences, and childbearing is something which would be exceptionally disturbing for them.

Unfortunately, nobody asked the doctor whether a male judge had authorised the procedures . It's quite possible, since we do have more male judges than female in such matters. But do explain why the gender of the judge is of relevance or important to your imaginings.

[anotheoldgit]

LazyGun

You have already admitted what I am trying to get at, just by what you have said.

/// Whats your solution, AoG? Allow them to procreate without hinderance? Put the resulting kids up for adoption/fostering? Force the woman to have an abortion if/when she gets pregnant? ///

So obviously you must want opposite to this since you are opposing me?

So what is your solution then Sterilise 'EVERY' person who has learning difficulties, because in your own words it is obvious that you don't want them to be allowed to procreate without hindrance, meaning you want them to be prevented from procreating, because that would mean putting the resulting kids up for adoption/fostering or forcing the woman to have an abortion.

And I still not heard where the chap has actually been asked if he wants to undergo an vasectomy, only that he doesn't want any more children, is he mentally capable of reading what the operation involves and then sign his agreement for it to take place?

[ummmm]

AOG - not everyone with LD are incapable of making decisions.

[anotheoldgit]

/// @AoG You still have not said what you think should happen.///

I am not qualified to make that decision, all I know is that I find the sterilisation of people with learning difficulties a little distasteful.

[Mamyalynne]

If it were to be a sweeping rule across all people, yes - but on a case by case basis brought before a judge as in this case, then acceptable.

[anotheoldgit]

ummmm

/// AOG - not everyone with LD are incapable of making decisions. ///

Perhaps not, I was just asking if this particular person was, can anyone on here say he is?

[anotheoldgit]

Mamyalynne

/// If it were to be a sweeping rule across all people, yes - but on a case by case basis brought before a judge as in this case, then acceptable. ///

And you believe that judges come up with the right answer all the time?

If only.

[ummmm]

He has the mental age of a 6 to 9 year old. He obviously enjoys sex but will never be in a position to be able to look after any children he fathers. It was the right decision.

I've seen quite a few girls be 'made' by court to have a contraceptive device fitting. They don't take these sort of decisions lightly.

[gness]

I would think this was a well considered issue and I find it nice that the man can enjoy a sexual relationship and some privacy in his private life without this supervision he has been subjected to.
Perhaps other wheels are in motion regarding the female....but I wish him joy.

[ummmm]

AOG - Doctors/psychiatrists would have made the decision. They just needed the judge to agree with them...

[LazyGun]

@AoG - You STILL have not answered the question. You have not offered an opinion.

You allege this is a slippery slope towards forced sterilisation for all mentally handicapped, further insinuate some kind of anti-male conspiracy and take no note of the judges summary or the evidence given to support the vasectomy, which was that the man himself does not want any more children.

And this "So obviously you must want opposite to this since you are opposing me?" Is just risible.

If not vasectomy in this instance, come on, what is your answer? Allow potentially unprotected sex, possible impregnation and then decide? Force an abortion? Force her to bear the child and then get the parents to raise yet another child? Force her to bear a child and then give it up for adoption or fostering?

Your attempts to assume some kind of lofty moral highground on this issue is insulting, frankly, especially since you offer nothing to support your insinuations and no reasonable alternative.

[2sp_]

I'm considering trying to get Mr P classed as having learning difficulties, as he keeps getting knocked back for a vasectomy...

Apparently he isn't allowed to make this decision for himself as he is too young to know that he doesn't want any more kids (he's 30).

I'm just glad that this man has found a partner, and if sterilising him gives them both the freedom to enjoy a full relationship, then I think it's a good thing.