The Nazi salute

[allen ives]

Watching the many television programmes about the Second World War, I have been struck by the inconsistency of the so-called Nazi salute. The army seems to know how to do it - right arm stuck out at 45 degrees, palm open. But the heirarchy, including Hitler, have a variety of versions. Sometimes he sticks his arm out straight from his body, sometimes at the 45 degree angle, and other times he just flaps his hand up to some indistinct point behind his right ear in a curiously effeminate gesture.
And while you're on the subject, inkie, who had the pronunciation right? Churchill or the yanks (i.e. nahzee or nartzee)? My limited knowledge of German would indicate that nahzee sounds more accurate.

[incitatus]

Aren't we making a few assumptions there?
The salute inconsistency was more widespread than you think, though the effeminate arm flap was Hitler trying to do an army salute. If you look at Goebbels doing it he looks like half an albatross. The Army version was normally best done by the SS, the rest of the army had a standard salute, many of the officers refusing to use the Nazi one, hence the occasional ear tickle by AH, to keep them sweet. The SS regiments were the other way round, largely.
I think the point is that as a poltical salute it was not defined very rigidly at first, and so the people who had done it longest did it worst, so to speak.
I think it was originally designed by Ernst Rohm any way. Like much else. His thanks was to be assassinated for being a leather pervert drag queen. And not hushing it up like Goering.

[incitatus]

And my knowledge of german could be counted on the fingers of one foot. I think you are right though...as the z is the start of the word socialist, it should be soft, as you dont start words with tz...do you?

[incitatus]

Talking to a German colleague, she says the tz pronunciation is the German one!
She also got a bit shirty. Shouldn't have mentioned the war.....

[good2skull]

There is a statue of an old Swedish king (Gustav Adolfus?) in Stockholm doing what appears to a be bit of a nazi salute, but he was around a couple of centuries too early. Is there an origin fo this sort of greeting ? Could never imagine a Swede being a nazi.

[allen ives]

I'll defer rating your answer good2skull until old Inkie rules on the Swedish connection. (He probably knew the king personally)...

[JML]

Nazi is short for Nazional as in Nazional Sozialist and as such should be pronounced Natzee. Z in German is always a tz sound regardless of whether it is the first letter or not.

[allen ives]

Thanks for your input, JML. Slight problem here - my 1990s Collins German/English dictionary gives national as the German for national, although it does confirm the pronunciation as natsional (can't quite do the phonetic symbols here!) It gives nazi for nazi, though. Question: I seem to recall the Germans 'modernising' their spelling etc. in the last few decades. Did they clean up the spelling of 'national' at the same time, or is 'nazional' just one of our pre(mis)conceptions?

[KEJ2000]

Hello, I am a Yankee and as far as I know, most of us pronounce it "not-zee". A few say "nat-zee". I have never heard anyone here pronounce it as "nartzee"! Perhaps it was only an American who happened to have a strong regional accent, such as a Bostonian or a Texan, that you heard???