Burkas V. Mini-Skirts

[Khandro]

Baroness Warsi says banning the burka would be like banning the mini-skirt
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10421608/Banning-veil-would-be-like-outlawing-miniskirts-says-Baroness-Warsi.html
but the comparison is flawed, in fact the mini-skirt is by far the healthier attire. The most important method of obtaining vitamin D is through exposure to sunlight, and in his book (my wife is reading); 'Allah ist mit den Standhaften' Peter Scholl-Latour points to the ill health of women avoiding such exposure,- some even covering the slit they look through with sunglasses. So apart from its other benefits, isn't the mini-skirt the better option?

[Khandro]

Fred; you say that the burka is worn as "convention" but it isn't. Have you been to any Islamic countries? Women wear loose fitting saris etc. and mostly keep their hair covered (as do many men) but the burka is by no means the convention.
It is a 'convention' to wear evening dress at Glyndebourne, but it is optional at Covent Garden.

[Ellipsis]

> Ellipsis, but there's a good chance she'll unmask if asked.

Asked by whom?

[naomi24]

Fred, I'm clearly wasting my breath. You really don’t understand.

Ellipsis, a shop keeper possibly – or a bank worker – or a policeman.

[Ellipsis]

OK, that moves the argument a little. Rather than a ban per se, it would be OK for certain members of society to have the right to ask to see the face in certain circumstances - is that your position? Seems reasonable if so.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, No, that is not my position. For the reasons I've given I would support an outright ban.

[Ellipsis]

An outright ban of what? Anything that covers the face? Or burkas?

[mikey4444]

An outright ban on the burka would be both stupid and unenforcible. I would rather the Plods spent their time investigating all the burglaries, car thefts, etc that they say that they can't cope with, rather than hound innocent women who prefer to wear something different to other people. If these women were white, British and Christian, than it is unlikely that we would even be debating this non-issue in the first place.

[naomi24]

Ellipsis, I would support a ban on burkas. People other than the women who either adopt that style of dress, or who are forced to wear it, will remove a mask if asked – without special facilities being provided. Other countries have managed it and it’s time we too said ‘no’.

Mikey, playing the racist card seems to be a habit of yours – and I actually object to that. It’s a ploy designed simply to shut the opposition up. Read my previous posts and learn. You might be able to ignore the continuing abuse of voiceless and powerless women by the men of a backward and misogynistic culture – and those women who do have a choice and who are laughing at people like you for supporting their ‘rights’ to wear a uniform with the specific intention of demonstrating their political opposition to the west - but I can’t, and I can't because I care You are doing the subjugated women of Islam no favours – and neither are their so-called ‘sisters’. Open your eyes.

[naomi24]

//I would support a ban on burkas.//

To avoid any confusion, add the niqab to that statement too.

[Ellipsis]

> People ... will remove a mask if asked

Only if asked by somebody who has a right to ask! For example if you had a facial disfigurement, perhaps from a recent injury, you might feel more comfortable going out in a "mask" or some other item of concealing clothing and most indignant or hurt if any old Tom, Dick or Harry asked you to remove it for no "good" reason.

My own position on the burka is that I think it's s a bit odd but if women want to wear one then they have a right to. To provide a bit of context, I saw a debate on Newsnight(?) with several women in burkas, and it was like a scene from Monty Python. You couldn't tell who was speaking unless the camera was on them alone, and they kept interrupting each other because they couldn't read each other's body language! It was amusing. However, when they did manage to speak the women were all articulate and clearly wearing a burka out of choice, and all were quite comfortable with other women who chose not to wear a burka. Banning them from exercising their free will over a simple item of clothing seems draconian.

[naomi24]

These women are 'the untouchables'. Had the suspected terrorist who has just escaped been wearing a balaclava when he left that mosque, the chances of him absconding would have been lessened considerably.

[emmie]

she is talking nonsense, another apologist for this garb, a woman as well,
it will never be banned, more's the pity.

[emmie]

i was in a cafe recently and watched a young girl trying to wrestle with her veil so she could eat, finally giving in and removing it, political statement or forced on them, who knows.

[Ellipsis]

Banning is too draconian. The way to change attitudes is not by dictatorship.

A negative effect of banning the burka could be that wearers no longer go out at all, thereby remaining "veiled" by segregation. That wouldn't really help anybody to achieve the outcomes they were looking for - except perhaps the misogynists.

One positive benefit of wearing the burka in public is that it means at least the wearers are in public i.e. they are mixing with society and seeing how other parts of society lead their lives. That's the only way I can see that attitudes will change.

[naomi24]

Do nothing - and so it continues.