Laws of Nature

[Doni]

Where the laws of nature created or did they evolve? Consider this statement: 'The laws of nature we discover are not alternatives to divine activity, but only our codification of that activity in its normal manifestations.

[drochit]

I quote Jacob Ghitis in his reply to a similar question.
Being ourselves a result of the Physical Laws, which determine how energy-matter interact, we are as part of Nature as anything else created by those Laws. The only things that are not intrinsic to Nature are the things that we humans create using our minds and hands, feet, or mouths, be them a chair, a painting, a poem. Because those things are created by us, human beings, being, therefore, artificial. Yet, natural does not mean created by Nature, but being part of Nature, as a result of the ongoing effects of the physical laws, starting from the moment of the Big Bang. Thus, we --or anything else that exists naturally-- are part of Nature, not its creation. Nature does not create, it is continuously being created. Suppose a child grows in a desert, and he has no opportunity to see anything else, including any images of other places. He will come to the conclusion that Nature is mostly sand. My intention has been to call the attention to the real signification of the name and concept of Nature.

[anthomson]

Eh ! Not sure I understand the question or the answer. I would certainly say that by definition laws (of nature/ science - I think these are the same) do NOT evolve, they remain constant. Now whether you want to say that they are rules created by God or not is entirely up to you. From a scientific view point the laws of nature are just compound rules built up from much simplier laws or equations. Ultimately scientists aim to find the 'base' rule from which all others are derived and are probably pretty close to doing it. Your statement could just as easily be reversed. e.g. religion is not an alternative to science, but only our codification(tut) of it....

[Doni]

Anthomson - I like your answer. I was a math major in college, and this makes sense. You start with a basic set of irreducible rules/truths. But where did those come from? Were they their at the start of evolution? I don't think you can reverse the statement of religion being a codification of science. Religion states that a god created the laws of nature and to a believer, science would be the codification of those laws. Religion doesn't codify laws of nature, however, it sometimes is used to fill in the gaps. Ex. When something can't be explained by science, it often get "explained" by religion as supernatural, a miracle.

[anthomson]

Not easy - maybe neither created nor evolved - and you just have to accept that fact that they (or something) have always existed and always will. Even if you say God created them - you have only deferred the problem to who created God. Mathematically I guess it is possible for energy to be created out of a void (if it is balanced by negative energy ) - we see particles and antiparticles being created from energy in particle accelerators so guess maybe the same is true of raw energy.

[anthomson]

Quantum Theory experiments would maybe suggest that wheneven a a photon or particle has the choice of possible several possible routes, a probability wave is created and the photon's position is undefined. When the probability wave collaspes ( because it is observed ) the photon makes its decision and takes one route. However scentists have speculated that all the other possible routes may also be taken, but in parrallel universes. Extending this you can apply it to the rules of nature - some universes may have a stronger force gravity fro example. All the possible combinations get tried but only the workable one with ideal conditions will form a universe as we know it and ultimately life. So I guess this is a sort of evolution of physical laws ( well survival of the fittest anyway )

[anthomson]

whoops - sorry about the typos; I can only contemplate infinite voids and parallel universes after consuming a full bottle of wine.

[2dull]

after much searching for how the laws of the land started..we stumbled upon this sight...AND. you lot are made..we are gonna try the drinking thing too and see if that helps us find what we are looking for....just outta curiotsity if anybody knows anything about the greek empire, egyption or assyriiant babylion cultures and how they bear on todays laws please HELP. we are begging