Punishment

[sherrardk]

Would welcome your thoughts on this one. Boy #1 is doing (very) well at school, nice attitude, good attendance, etc. In science they were doing a test and he was told off for listening to two pupils having a conversation. No accusations of cheating just talking. The teach tore up one pupil's test and told my son and two others that she wasn't marking their tests. In the following lesson she hadn't marked his test but said 'oh, I don't need to worry about you, you're doing fine'. Do you think this a suitable punishment?

[rockyracoon]

I don't think it's very professional, if there was no concerns about cheating then I don't see why she wouldn't mark the paper, smacks of being a bit childish to me.

Though to be fair, I get the serious *** if I think one of my kids are being punished unnecessarily :)

[factor-fiction]

Doesn't sound the best way to have dealt with it but it's not easy to get all these sort of things. And of course the parents often don't always hear the full story. In a proper exam if someone broke the exam rules the paper probably wouldn't be marked. Would you prefer a further punishment or for the teacher to apologize and mark the paper?

[factor-fiction]

^not easy to get all these sort of things RIGHT.
(And APOLOGISE not apologize)

[sherrardk]

I personally think she has been unprofessional and pathetically childish. This is not the first time I have had bad vibes about her. She is clearly out of her depth with a top set, year 9 class in a small, country school. If he gets her for GCSE I will be very concerned. I think not marking his paper is petty (she probably thinks I am going to punish him for getting zero on the test). There is a parent consultation thing coming up (with form tutor only) and I will bring it up (bet he gets a mark on his grade sheet though).

Ps - I expect lots of people would say this but the boy doesn't bother lying about things as he knows there is no point. He also knows that I will back him up when he is in the right.

[Peter Pedant]

You dont have it all -
a test where your son doesnt get his paper marked - so it is obvious a strict test
and yet two pupils 'were talking' - about the weather ? rain in Somerset ?
and yet it was interesting enough to engross your son...

definitely quite a lot left out - will you eva learn the whole truth ?

[sherrardk]

They'd all finished the test, believe the boy - he has no need to either cheat or lie to me.

[factor-fiction]

Exam conditions normally have to be adhered to until the papers have been collected in and the test is officially declared over.
As an outsider and as someone who works in schools I'm tempted to say let it pass- let him see that actions have consequences. But I recognise that if it was my son I'd consider getting involved

[Peter Pedant]

True enough FF
I was er retaking Maths A level ( first go 1968 )
and after paper 1 had been collected, I said to a teenager can you tell the man in the Rolls Royce outside - theres only one - to pick me up in two hours ?

and the invigilator started screaming.... (paper 2 was just about to start )

you know like I thought he was gonna convulse

and the gormless teenager didnt, oh god it was one of those days .... .

Jesus I was glad I wasnt back at skool full time.

[jno]

ff, what consequences should listening have? I can understand rules about not talking (though if it's after the test has been finished it seems petty); but listening?

[sherrardk]

Any conversation is interesting when you have nothing else to do. All the boy has learnt is that I think the teacher is bordering on incompetent, that he's not in trouble and that I will be telling his form tutor (at the consultation) what I think of both the teacher and her pathetic attempt at punishing him. If he had cheated then fine, punish him (properly) but to be punished by not having a test marked because he was listening is laughable.

[factor-fiction]

It depends on the definition of listening. Active listening by showing an interest in what someone is saying and encouraging them to continue is different to passive listening (raising your head when you hear something said on the other side of the room). Every day I see children having conversations instead of listening to teachers and A usually claims B was talking to them and vice versa.
There are many battles to fight in life and the more I think about the less I'd want to make an issue of this, but i accept I don't know the exact story here or the history

[EcclesCake]

I'm wondering how the teacher can prove he was listening???

It does sound like the actions of someone not in full control and grasping at straws.

[factor-fiction]

It doesn't help if pupils get the impression that the parent thinks the teacher is incompetent, in my opinion.
Unless it's a major issue, let the teacher get on with it or raise it with the school without involving children in the concerns

[jno]

what's the practical difference, though, ff? I'm struggling to think why any of this may be punishable at all. I presume a ban on talking may be to prevent exchanges of information during a test. But is there, seriously, any ban on listening? (How on earth would you enforce one?) What would be its purpose? How can you tell if a listener is active or passive? And either way - what's the problem exactly?

[sherrardk]

My son is not an idiot and he is treated as an adult. He was already of the impression that she isn't very good at her job and articulated his feelings in an appropriate manner at the last consultation event (pointing out that he doesn't like her methods of teaching and that he finds them dull (nothing personal about her herself) - mostly reading out of a book and very little hands on work, although he is aware that she doesn't set the syllabus, just follows it).

[factor-fiction]

I think listening to other students instead of listening to the teacher or doing another task is an issue, if that was the case here.
In my experience the parents prefer their own child's version of events to the teacher's version. But maybe I see things too much now from the teacher's point of view. My days as a parent may have faded from my memory.

[sherrardk]

The boy had finished his test. I am looking at this both as a parent (an over protective one at that) and an ex senior teacher. The boy knows we both have a lot of experience from working in education (himself used to be a primary deputy head) and that we will try to look at it from both points of view (parent and ex-teacher).

[jno]

does that suggest that the offence is "not paying attention"? Teachers did take a dim view of that in my day, but the idea that they would punish it by refusing to mark a test is rather bizarre. After all, that's a response that can only set back a child's learning, by denying him the evaluation that others get.

[sherrardk]

I agree jno, it's almost cruel. Lots of 'naughty' pupils couldn't care less about their grades but high achievers almost crave recognition of their achievements. Luckily the boy isn't bothered and he also knew he wouldn't get in trouble for it (can't remember him ever getting in trouble for anything at school, he's just a nice boy).