Estoppel Question Advise Needed

[Tiger7861]

Me and my partner live in my parents house for 15 years now they want me out in the past on numerous occasions they have promised me and my partner the house but nothing on paper
The deeds are in there name and we have never paid any rent or mortgage but we have spent money on the property over 10 years about 15k . Do I have any chance of keeping the house or staying here we have 2 children the solicitor had advised me of estoppel saying that you parents have broken there promise?Additional DetailsI forgot to mention me and my husband are separated know he is saying that no promise was made I have a witness to the promise but we did apply for local housing housing register waiting for a house will that have any significance ?
As the landlords are saying one of the conditions of staying there was that you stay on the hosing register.
In other words we did not reply to our detriment can this act bee taken like this ?

[woofgang]

I am going to stop replying here...something not right.

[Tiger7861]

Former husband spent money but we where a couple then,the gift was given to both of us

[factor-fiction]

Was this not covered by the divorce settlement?

[Tiger7861]

No

[factor-fiction]

So maybe this ship has sailed.

Was a date ever put on the promised gift?

[Tiger7861]

No never

[Graham-W]

I wonder if this could also be covered by Tiger7861 applying for possessory title. I know "squatters rights" was altered in 2012 but if Tiger has been in the house for 12 years up to that date, maintained it, paid the council tax etc and lived there "without let or hindrance" for the require 12 years, it may be possible to apply to the Land registry for "possessory title". Check that one out with your solicitor.

[Barmaid]

The difficulty with an estoppel case is that the devil is in the detail. There is too little detail to advise here. However, the concern I would have is even if you managed to prove detriment, the COurt will award the minimum equity to do justice in the situation. In this case, I am not convinced the "minimum equity" would be the freehold of the property. The other difficulty you have is that your "co-owner" is your ex husband. I am absolutely astounded that this was not dealt with as part of the divorce with his parents as Interveners. I'm also very concerned that you say it was a gift (OK, whilst the legal title was not conveyed the beneficial title would have been held by the true legal owners as constructive trustee) yet that appears not to have been considered as part of the divorce.

Given that you have involved a solicitor, I suggest you take proper and detailed advice from him or her. The cases that have been cited to you are helpful, but you can probably do no worse than read Thorner v Major which is available on bailii.org.

[Barmaid]

Graham - there is no question of possessory title since the OP was there with the knowledge and positive consent of the true legal owner.

[Tiger7861]

The property tax was never In our. Name we paid it it was In the landlords name

[Graham-W]

Ahh. I stand corrected.

[Eve]

Barmaid beat me to it, one of the major components of an adverse possession claim is possession without the owner’s consent, they were living there with the owners' consent for most of that time.

[Tiger7861]

Barmaid plz explain
I'm also very concerned that you say it was a gift (OK, whilst the legal title was not conveyed the beneficial title would have been held by the true legal owners as constructive trustee)

[Tiger7861]

Barmaid r u saying we should have been trustees

[Barmaid]

No I am not saying that at all. I am saying that you can have the property as a gift where the legal title remains in the names of the legal owners but the beneficial ownership (ie the real benefit) goes to the donees. Normally this would be underwritten by a Declaration of Trust.

What I do not understand is why this was not dealt with as part of the divorce proceedings. You are only giving us half the story here.

[cassa333]

Tiger,

I think the majority of people, once they have more details have postulated that you haven't a cats chance of getting title. More or less the same advice you had from the other forum that solicitors and barristers give free advice on.

1. You lived rent free with permission for 10/15 years.
2. You spent about £15 in maintainance.
3. Your ex husbands parents verbaly 'promised' the house to you both.
4. You want sole possessory title.

I would also say not a cats chance.

As devils advocate if it gets sticky, could the exes parents damand rent?
5. Your only witness is a family member.

[Tiger7861]

But the owners are denying this was ever a gift

[Eve]

In basic terms, what Barmaid said refers to certain rights that people can accrue even where there is no legal ownership "on papers", a good example is when a couple split who have been married for years, the husband may have been the breadwinner, the house was in his name only etc... but the wife contributed to the household by keeping the house, raising children etc... so the wife may have some claim in equity over the marital home as they have both contributed to the household.

It is the difference between legal ownership (eg on paper such as having the title) and beneficial ownership, the latter is based in what is called equity which is, essentially, rooted in fairness but there are rules governing this.

Fairness applies to the end result too so there is no unfair gain, eg getting significantly more than it is ruled that you contributed.

When there is a beneficial interest, the legal owners are said to hold the beneficial interest in trust for those with the beneficial interest.

I hope this is right and helps, long time since I studied this! Hopefully Barmaid will appear to explain better.

[Barmaid]

He who asserts must prove. Can you prove it?

As I said, take some proper legal advice. I know from long experience that you cannot summarise a case like this in a few hundred words.

[Eve]

I was wondering if this did come up in the divorce in some way which led to the former husband denying that his parents had said that the house was a gift to them both etc...

Did you use lawyers for the divorce?