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Will ......again
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So we now have a copy of the will (see previous posts this week) from Auntie. She has slightly misinformed us as she told us that the will was not signed at all. It's a 5 page document from WH Smith or similar and is signed by uncle on one page only and the two witnesses have only signed on one page too despite there being space at the bottom of each page for signatures. Is the will legal or not?
Also probate has not been granted but the contents of the house have been sold on. We thought that you couldn't dispose of anything until probate came through, is this correct?
Got an appointment to see solicitor on Wednesday for advice but are interested in AB comments. Thanks.
Also probate has not been granted but the contents of the house have been sold on. We thought that you couldn't dispose of anything until probate came through, is this correct?
Got an appointment to see solicitor on Wednesday for advice but are interested in AB comments. Thanks.
Answers
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Hi Jaynie
me again
Nice to repost - ABers always wonder What happened in the End.
and ... This looks OK - I kinda always really thought it would be signed.
HOWEVER it might be worth asking the witnesses if they signed in the presence of the testator - remember you told us they hadnt
Your second para - BM may help - it depends on the right of the non-beneficiaries. Only one of the beneficiaries in the will ( I think ) can complain about naughtiness.
unless you are gonna try to overturn the will
Clearly advice is needed. Dont worry about getting relevant details wrong - we all do. The two witnesses may have been shown the will and then invited round to witness the signature in the normal way - you need to find out. Remember you witness the signature and not the details of the will.
These things happen. We olds learn to check fantastic stories and some still turn out to be true ! Who dja think you are - Laurence Llewellyn Bowen episode has a LOT about aunt kitty being disinherited -a nd sixty y later she is still wondering about bringing a case.... It turns out, since they flash up two cases Laurence declines to look at - that I looked up, that she has already litigated and lost [Bad Kitty bad memory ! ]. It turns out she was never named in the will - so no inheritance - and her husband tries to sell rights she doesnt have and is told he cant ! ( twice )
Good Luck - find out what the charges of the solicitor are - after the initial interview it is around £200 / h . You need to find out about the witnesses before you go - and I would shy away from incapacity ( too mad or old to make a will ) because it is hard to prove and expensive if you fail.
thx for reposting
me again
Nice to repost - ABers always wonder What happened in the End.
and ... This looks OK - I kinda always really thought it would be signed.
HOWEVER it might be worth asking the witnesses if they signed in the presence of the testator - remember you told us they hadnt
Your second para - BM may help - it depends on the right of the non-beneficiaries. Only one of the beneficiaries in the will ( I think ) can complain about naughtiness.
unless you are gonna try to overturn the will
Clearly advice is needed. Dont worry about getting relevant details wrong - we all do. The two witnesses may have been shown the will and then invited round to witness the signature in the normal way - you need to find out. Remember you witness the signature and not the details of the will.
These things happen. We olds learn to check fantastic stories and some still turn out to be true ! Who dja think you are - Laurence Llewellyn Bowen episode has a LOT about aunt kitty being disinherited -a nd sixty y later she is still wondering about bringing a case.... It turns out, since they flash up two cases Laurence declines to look at - that I looked up, that she has already litigated and lost [Bad Kitty bad memory ! ]. It turns out she was never named in the will - so no inheritance - and her husband tries to sell rights she doesnt have and is told he cant ! ( twice )
Good Luck - find out what the charges of the solicitor are - after the initial interview it is around £200 / h . You need to find out about the witnesses before you go - and I would shy away from incapacity ( too mad or old to make a will ) because it is hard to prove and expensive if you fail.
thx for reposting
Not a legal beagle but I know about disposal before probate or the equivalent, low value states don't have to go through actual probate. Executors can dispose of items before this and sometimes need to. There may be for instance animals, maybe quite valuable ones. that need rehoming maybe through sale, salaries to staff to be paid, unsanitary personal effects to be disposed of, possibly perishables like the contents of a freezer and so on. What the executor must do is keep a record of what is done and any monies expended or realised by the sale of items, also the estimated value of any items like animals that may be given away for no charge. Beneficiaries may require to see such records but as I understand it, only beneficiaries.
Queries. Have the witnesses & uncle all signed on the same page? Is the page they have signed at the end of the will?
I'm no expert, but if the witness signatures are on a different page I would very much want to know why - if they signed in the presence of uncle & of one another (as they must) why not on the same page? If they all signed on (say) page 1 instead of at the end it may not matter but seems odd & it might be worth asking the witnesses what the circumstances were.
As PP says, find out everything you can from the witnesses before you see the solicitor.
Selling the contents (if they have all been sold) before probate seems premature, to say the least, but whether there is anything dodgy about it depends on what records have been kept of the items & the sale proceeds & perhaps who they've been sold to. For example if a valuable antique item was sold to a relative of the executor for a low price you would have grounds for suspicion, but if all the items were normal everyday things of no great value then it would be much more difficult to raise an issue.
I'm no expert, but if the witness signatures are on a different page I would very much want to know why - if they signed in the presence of uncle & of one another (as they must) why not on the same page? If they all signed on (say) page 1 instead of at the end it may not matter but seems odd & it might be worth asking the witnesses what the circumstances were.
As PP says, find out everything you can from the witnesses before you see the solicitor.
Selling the contents (if they have all been sold) before probate seems premature, to say the least, but whether there is anything dodgy about it depends on what records have been kept of the items & the sale proceeds & perhaps who they've been sold to. For example if a valuable antique item was sold to a relative of the executor for a low price you would have grounds for suspicion, but if all the items were normal everyday things of no great value then it would be much more difficult to raise an issue.
themas, if there is a payment to the government due (which is the point of the probate/letters of admin yadda yadda process), then estate contents may need to be sold to cover this and you can't get a probate certificate until the payment is made or, I think until an agreement of the method of payment is made.. As I said, there are many legit reasons why an executor may need to dispose of parts of the estate before probate has been granted. I am not saying this is what happened in the OP's case, just that its not an intrinsically dodgy act.
well selling an unprobated house is here:
http://
and if you goggle can I sell chattels without probate ?
you get this:
http://
where it says baldly:
Once the Grant has been issued by the Probate Registry, the Executors have authority to act and are in a position to sell or transfer the assets as required. Until there is a Grant the Executors may not sell the deceased’s chattels, for example a car or furniture.
It is clear from the postings that the exceptions about weeny properties do not apply in this case
http://
and if you goggle can I sell chattels without probate ?
you get this:
http://
where it says baldly:
Once the Grant has been issued by the Probate Registry, the Executors have authority to act and are in a position to sell or transfer the assets as required. Until there is a Grant the Executors may not sell the deceased’s chattels, for example a car or furniture.
It is clear from the postings that the exceptions about weeny properties do not apply in this case
That's interesting PP. My late mother's estate was small although she did own her flat but there were "issues" around the flat so we were taking legal advice. The bloke we retained was very clear that we could dispose of low value items before probate was granted. although it amy have made a difference in that we were both the beneficiaries and the executors.
It is always better to agree in these things - litigation is so expensive.
In the instant case this is obviously not possible
a neighbour was told he would be left a car by another neighbour
and 'we' got a copy of the will ( ie it has been probated so it is published ) we found this out and were told as cool as a cucumber by the lawyer,
no car - 'it had been given away..'
and he thought that would be it !
We raised merry hell on that one
In the instant case this is obviously not possible
a neighbour was told he would be left a car by another neighbour
and 'we' got a copy of the will ( ie it has been probated so it is published ) we found this out and were told as cool as a cucumber by the lawyer,
no car - 'it had been given away..'
and he thought that would be it !
We raised merry hell on that one
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