False Accusations About Sexual Harassment

[buffymad]

This is going back to my other half trying to get contact with his daughter and his ex trying to stop that happening by whatever means possible. She's told a number of lies, the worst ones being sexual harassment and domestic violence (although it has been mentioned that she could be getting legal aid for mentioning domestic violence!). Anyhow, he's very worried that she's said these things, particularly as the court seemed to be (in his eyes) egging her on to take it further.

If she was to do that, what would actually happen? She has no evidence. She apparently got a solicitor to send a letter to him when they divorced (which he never received, first he knew of this was when she brought it up at the hearing). He's terrified he'd get out in prison. I say how could that happen as there's no evidence/proof and it was over 4 years ago - but not sure how the law actually works on this point.

Any clues please?

[EDDIE51]

To take any action there needs to be a lot more than just the word of one of the partners in a relationship. This sort of 'mudslinging'happens very frequently and the courts are well aware of it.
My first thought was it is a pretty poor solicitor that does not send a letter by recorded delivery so that there is proof of it being received!

[buffymad]

Well I thought that myself Eddie, surely a letter like that would need proof that the other side received it?

[EDDIE51]

Yes, just the word even of a solicitor is not a valid reason to start a case or take action. Did the solicitor actually submit any evidence or is the whole thing just what the 'ex' is saying?
I have personal experience through my daughter of a custody/access case and all the solicitor letters were sent recorded delivery , as they should be at a cost of £50 to £100 a page !

[New Judge]

“…particularly as the court seemed to be (in his eyes) egging her on to take it further.”

Courts do not egg anybody on to do anything. They listen to matters put before them and reach decisions on what they’ve heard. If there is any egging on being done it must be from elsewhere, the police or a lawyer, perhaps.

What “hearing” are you referring to? Is this being heard in a family court? If so, criminal proceedings rarely follow from family court proceedings and there would have to be a bit more evidence than a four year old unsubstantiated allegation.

[EDDIE51]

'Egging her on to take it further' I think that is just the court asking for more information to see if there was any actual evidence rather than just verbal accusations.
Your OH will get his day in court , he just needs to stay calm and tell the truth. The bit about the solicitors letter will be very easy to disprove, all the court will do is ask which solicitor it was and get them to confirm that a letter was sent , or not, and also why it was not recorded delivery.

[Peter Pedant]

I scrubbed my previous cont on the grounds that i havent done much in a family court

bit it began I think he waits and sees
I would not employ a lawyer as it means much moolah in the lawyers pocker which shold be spent on the kid

it seems obvious that a court is involved - probably family which I think is a good thing as there is dispute involving a kid.

I cant work out if both sides have lawyers - much moolah for the lawyers which should be spent on the kid if the answer is yes

The registrar will have had lots and lots of experience in working out what is really going on when parents battle

I agree the registrar has asked 'what evidence have you' when the subject of harassment was raised and then said 'go out and get some' when the answer was 'none'

the first step is to fo to the police and allege harassment and they issue a pin notice without asking the other side what is going on ( from personal experience )
this hasnt been done and I doubt if they will issue one on allegations four years old

In my own case which was for debt ( I was the creditor ) the allegations were heard by the judge as an offset for damages ( sort of I get less if I really had put my hand up her skirt sort of )
he then ruled that I was only asking for payment of the debt ( !! she had a sort of vivid imagination and or was lying ) and that I was allowed in law to do that . The advantage was of course that when she recycled them - the little tinker, imagination running wild - I could say that these have been heard by a judge and dismissed ....

which is kinda what he could say - a judge considered XYZ and said .... ABC
clearly he ( your partner) needs to listen up during these hearings and not put his own slant on it

[EDDIE51]

^^ Sorry PP but you have really excelled yourself this time, I have read that 3 times and I still don't know what you are trying to say!

[Peter Pedant]

ahh - but it is not written to you eddie

in short

1.wait and see
2.dont get a lawyer
3.they ( the two parties not the poster) are in court anyway
4.judges in the family division are good at sorting this out
5.allegations without evidence are by and large ignored
6.egging on didnt occur - inviting her to supply evidence probably did
7.if harasssment is alleged the first police reponse is a PIN notice
8.the police dont ask the alleged harasser if it is true ( surprisingly)
9.harassment can be used as an offset in civil cases
10.if a judge considers it, then it is res judicata and should not be ruled on again.
11.if a judge has considered it and it is res judicata then the same allegations should not be re-investigated

phew done it - a sentence to sum up each paragraph

eddie this is a legal thread - if youre gonna give law advice, read a textbook before hand for chrissakes.

[EDDIE51]

^ Thanks much easier to understand for me and the questioner. I was commenting based on my personal experience of a similar situation, I do not have any professional legal knowledge.

[Quoi]

I agree with PP the court may simply be inviting her to present evidence.
Either way the court will look at the circumstance and the timing of the accusation along with any evidence and make its decision.
If it didn't happen then there cannot be evidence.
My question would be 'why have you bought this up again now and not pursued it 4 years ago' - we both know the answer to that and so will the court.
For now, wait and just continue to support him as you are doing. He has to trust that the truth will come out.
I am sure he will be worried about 'what if they believe her'
The family court are very aware of this and really have a good way of assessing the reliability of a witness. It is all about what they say and how they say it. A liar will always trip up and evidence will not tie up when its concocted.
The liars always start something off but NEVER think too far ahead.

[Peter Pedant]

I think we are all coming out on
just wait and see

I do have experience where harassment was brought up all of a sudden
in a case and what amazed me is that the judge heard and ruled on it

[Bathsheba]

I agreed with Eddie on his first post re PP, but I found PP's second submission much clearer. Thanks for that, PP!
Best of luck to you Buffy, divorces and lying exes are not a nice thing to be involved in.

Baths
x x x

[buffymad]

Thanks for all the replies!

The egging on - well that was my boyfriend said but he tends to see the bad side in everything so yes, it was probably just the judges acknowledging what she'd said.

When he finally gets to have his say at the next hearing (family court), I'll be telling him to raise all these points. If I'd been sexually harassed by someone then I think I'd have done something about it straight away, not 4 years later!! A lot of his visits with his daughter were supervised initially so not sure when the harassment was meant to take place (touching etc)!!

I don't think she's thought her little stories through properly ...!!

[EDDIE51]

Let us know what happens, I am interested, it has parallels with my daughters case.

[buffymad]

Well she's taken it a step further and gone to the police to say he raped her while they were married! Untrue by the way. He wasn't arrested or charged or anything. Police came round to say the allegations had been made. He went to the station voluntarily to give his side of the story which was recorded. They said they'd need to look into it further but there were a lot more cases taking priority so it could take some time.

Absolutely shocked she'd go this far. There's so many instances AFTER it was meant to have happened (and after they split) that she put herself in situations where she was alone with him. Now if that was me I wouldn't go anywhere near someone who'd done that!! Loads of discrepancies in what she's told the police but still very scary for him. Not even sure what kind of evidence they could get coz its all she said, he said really!

I'm aware that as she's "cried rape" she can now get free legal aid. Bit of a coincidence! Just like she's waited until he's taken her to court to mention the apparent rape now!!

The police were aware that the family court hearings were ongoing and said this wasn't uncommon!!

She's giving a bad name to anyone who HAS gone through an ordeal like that, nasty vile piece of work.