Holiday Accrual Depends On How Many Hours Worked

[buffymad]

Is this right/normal/usual?

Other half working somewhere where they’ve said you have to work 40 hours before you accrue half a day’s holiday. He gets 28 days holiday including public holidays as per his contract and started in July (their holiday year is Jan to Dec).

He recently asked how many holidays he had left only to be told none at the moment because of the 40 hours per half day thing.

Sounds so confusing! Should they be working it out this way?

[murraymints]

usually 1 1/2 days accrued per calendar month

[murraymints]

and no entitlement 'till 12 months worked some places

[Peter Pedant]

depends on this contract....

https://worksmart.org.uk/work-rights/hours-and-holidays/holidays/how-much-annual-leave-am-i-entitled-law-and-when-can-i-take

ll workers have, from the first day of employment, the right to 5.6 weeks' paid holiday per year. You can work out how many days off you should get by multiplying the number of days you work each week by 5.6.

Employers are allowed to include the eight UK bank holidays within your statutory holiday entitlement.

you can work your way through it
and there must be someone at work who can explain it to him ....

I dont know about part time working

[Peter Pedant]

// and no entitlement 'till 12 months worked some places//

see ref - looks as tho this is unlawful
BUT may not be taken until then (!) phew - all that means is that there are bottle necks

[my employer unilaterally made all leave years start Jan 1 and had no conception what would happen Oct - Dec]

[Electrochem]

You accrue holiday pay from the moment you start work for a company.

Here is some guidance from the ACAS Website:

https://beta.acas.org.uk/how-much-holiday-you-should-get

Sounds like they are trying it on!

I don't know how murraymints has come up with a figure of 1.5 days per calendar month, because working 5 days a week entitles you to a minimum of 28 days annuual leave and 28/12 = 2.33 days accrued per month. Unless his contract says otherwise, he should be entitled to take paid leave after a short time. If he has any problems, tell him to get in touch with ACAS as they are very helpful.

[buffymad]

He’s full time. Already had some holidays but this has only been mentioned to him (and others) now! He did ask how many holidays he had left, only to be told “none at the moment” until he’d worked a few more 40 hours (if that makes sense). That’s fine but surely they should tell him how many he’s taken at least so he can work it out. They’ve never supplied the firm’s handbook to anyone either which I’m sure might give some insight as to this.

[buffymad]

Oh it’s also been said that say you want to book a holiday for next year. If you haven’t worked the required amount of hours to achieve those holidays, you won’t get paid for some of them. Should they include the hours that you’re on actual holiday towards hours worked (he’s been off for 6 days). My place is so easy - you’ve got a certain amount of holidays and you take them whenever!

[fiction-factory]

I can't see what's wrong with sayong you can't take holidays until you've earned them. Some companies can act flexibly if they can manage it and are prepared to accept teh risk that people may take a big paid hoiday they haven't earned and then never come back! Some companies stick rigidly to it. A slong a sthey allow the statitory minimum or the contractual holidays eventually duringa year it seems fine to me.
As for next year they seem to be saying he'll only get paid for those days he has earned. It just needs him to build up a good reserve of holidays by not taking days off too early

[fiction-factory]

I think that you are making this more complicate dthan it is. He shoudl speak to his HR department/manager to get them to explain it and to discuss whether there is any flexibility. They may say the door is always open if you can get better terms elsewhere

[bednobs]

as far as i'm aware they can make you take them whenever they wat as long as you have at least the minimu

[buffymad]

But the point I’m trying to make is this (not trying to make it complicated) ...

If he works 40 hour weeks from now until just before Christmas, he’d have accrued 4 days holiday. But what if he’s actually got 8 days holiday left? He’s entitled to take them before the end of the holiday year but hasn’t worked enough hours according to them!

He has asked HR but they’re not giving straight answers. I’m just repeating what they said to him. So I think they’re the ones making it complicated ...

[ubasses]

As he only started in July the following applies:
In the first year of your job your employer can use an ‘accrual system’ to work out your leave. For example, you’ll build up one twelfth of your leave each month, so that by the start of the third month you’ll be entitled to a quarter of your annual leave.
From what you have posted this looks like what they are doing, in which case it should not happen after he has completed his first year.

[Peter Pedant]

hi Ub\asses - baby doll
many thanks for clarifying that

buffy - yewb used to run a CAB - so she is sort of a walking working bureau

[bednobs]

buffy ad, when does the holiday year run from/to? i ask because he cant take more holiday than he is entitled to - you say he will only have earned enough by december for 3 days, but then talk of him being owed 8 days and im confused!

[ubasses]

Buffymad say in her original OP that the hol year is Jan to Dec.
Hi Peter, not a CAB that I ran but a Bank, had to do courses on all sorts, including employment law. Still check things on line though, too much has changed since retirement.

[chelle7272]

He won't have 8 days left if he has no entitlement now. He will only have what is accrued from now.

[chelle7272]

If he is accruing .5 days per week he will have more than 3 days at Christmas too?

[buffymad]

He doesn’t necessarily work 40 hours a week, it depends on how much there is for him to do each day.
He started half way through the year so 14 days holiday to include the public holidays. But if he’s worked 40 hours a week each week (which he hasn’t), that would still only take him to 13 days by Xmas so he’s then 1 day short of his entitlement.
He has taken holidays already (paid) but definitely hasn’t used his full entitlement.

[fiction-factory]

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/calculate-leave-entitlement
Read the bit about the first year of your job (headed "Leave entitlement when starting a new job"
When he started in July his entitlement in the first year would depend on the exact start date but would have been 12-14 days over the rest of the year. Presumably he has already taken some of that. If he had saved them until when he needs them he might have had enough left to book some holidays.
For next year he could ask if he could carry some forward from this year so a s to give more flexibility.
I think after a year employers do have to be more flexible so in the long run he should be fine.

[fiction-factory]

This link specifically covers emloyees who work variable hours.
https://www.myhrtoolkit.com/support/how-to-guides/variable-hours-employees/2/
It also includes a section on how employers can require employees to earn holidays befor ethey take them in the first year.
I expect it's to protect employers from some employees who might otherwise start a new job, take a long paid holiday after a month, and then disappear leaving the company out of pocket.