How Will The Leave Conditions Be Negotiated?

[EDDIE51]

Much has been made of how we will negotiate an advantageous deal to leave the EU.
But how many realise the true situation? We will not be in a position to demand terms, we will be told by the other members what we have to do and the conditions of exit
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/26/the-eu-will-treat-britain-like-greece/
I know this is from the' Torygraph ' so hardly unbiased. But I am sure most of it is true, the EU are NOT going to just allow us to walk away with a good deal, we will be made to pay and the price will be heavy!

[hc4361]

Jackdaw, my parents owned their own house and didn't have an indoor bath until 1966 when they put one in the kitchen. They finally had an indoor loo when one of my brother's left home leaving a bedroom vacant for converting to a bathroom - in 1974. Many of the neighbours were in the same situation, we weren't unusual.

[New Judge]

Thank you Nellie.

I’m not talking about life in the 1950s. I’m talking about the EU, with attitudes concerning regulation, centralisation and control that seem stuck in the 1950s. Most of the ineptitude demonstrated by the Euromaniacs stems from the fact that they have this integrationist model in their mind (which was formed in the 1950s) and nothing, but nothing will drag them away from it. It is clear there is widespread discontent across the continent with the EU and its handling of problems (which they often refuse to acknowledge even exist). But still they plough on because “they know what’s best”.

That’s what I meant by dragging the UK out of the 1950s.

For all the doubters and pessimists out there – I thought they were characteristics of older people. Get a grip, embrace the opportunities that will come from Brexit. Just get on with it and stop moaning. For the record, I would have said exactly the same had the result been to remain. The game is over. It's time for a shower and a few beers.

[hc4361]

I agree with that, NJ. We have to rally and make the best of the situation, which we will do because we always do.

[ummmm]

Jack...you were lucky by the sounds of it. My mum was too, born in 1952, she had the luxury of indoor lavs and facilities....but...got beaten on a daily basis. That was allowed back then, no questions asked.

[andres]

Well there you are then .Let's get back some the spirit that we had in the fifties and show the world.

[Jackdaw33]

I'm amazed, hc. We lived in council houses with all mod cons.

[fiction-factory]

I agree, eddie, that the process seems long and drawn out, there are hurdles to overcome and many things that need agreement by other members to the terms- it looks like a process designed to put countries off applying.
But I am not sure there is anything that can be usefully debated now as it's got to happen and we need to just see how it pans out. Maybe it will go as N_J suggests. I think pointing out practical difficulties is just going to be perceived by those who were keen on Leave as sour grapes and gives another opportunity to wind Remainers up

[Old_Geezer]

Re the analogy about being dragged back to the 50s. One needs to realise how many times folk say, "If only I knew then what I know now". And that's key. Going back to undo the bits you got wrong whilst retaining the bits you know now are right is the best of both times. You end up with the ideal situation.

[Hypognosis]

@EDDIE51

Article 50 stipulates procedures in accordance with Article 218(3) of The Lisbon Treaty. (I've copied paras 1-3 to save people having to fetch the context themselves)

-----
1. Without prejudice to the specific provisions laid down in Article 207, agreements between the Union and third countries or international organisations shall be negotiated and concluded in accordance with the following procedure.

2. The Council shall authorise the opening of negotiations, adopt negotiating directives, authorise the signing of agreements and conclude them.

3. The Commission, [ ... ] shall submit recommendations to the Council, which shall adopt a decision authorising the opening of negotiations and, depending on the subject of the agreement envisaged, nominating the Union negotiator or the head of the Union's negotiating team.
------

Unless I'm misreading this, UK will be treated as a "third country", "negotiating directives" are set by the Council and we only get what we're given.

The whole purpose of clubbing together to form a trading bloc is that it gives them clout and the ability to dictate terms by which you get access to consumers within its borders.

The EU is likely to keep on insisting on freedom of movement so our only option for closing the gate is to cease trading with Europe completely. Whatever we cutrently sell to EU, we will have to rapidly find a customer base for, in other parts of the world (which would have to be similar wealth/development level, in order to afford our prices, obviously).

[New Judge]

So I take it then, Hypo, that the EU has no trading agreements with nations that do not accept the free movement of their citizens then? It is currently negotiating agreements with the USA and Canada. These have been ongoing for some years (with little sign they will be concluded) so I assume "Freedom of Movement" must be the sticking point.