Telling It How It Is

[Khandro]

...... would you not say ?

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/time-to-jump-out-of-the-globalists-pan-of-boiling-water/

[Hymie]

Data from the OBR, ONS, FCA and many others point out what a disaster Brexit is for the UK, I believe one of the figures quoted was a loss of £80 billion a year to the UK economy – which has been revised up to £100 billion (which is reckoned to cost the exchequer around £40 billion per year in lost tax).

With no Brexit benefits, and such damage to the UK economy, it’s hard to comprehend why anyone would believe Brexit to be beneficial to the UK.

[New Judge]

Yes this article is twaddle.

There is no chance whatsoever of any new political party gaining a significant stronghold in this country. Over the past, say, ten years, there has been more of a political upheaval than at probably any time since WW2, principally caused by much of the electorate’s opposition to the UK’s membership of the EU. Yet no party other than Labour and the Tories made any significant inroads to politics in England & Wales during that time. UKIP arguably came the closest but with just one seat (albeit with more than 13% of the votes) in 2015 theirs can hardly be called a success. It did spur the main parties into “doing something” but as soon as the referendum was done, the support for UKIP declined rapidly.

Despite campaigning for the result of the EU referendum to be ignored (which should have been attractive to the 48% who voted to remain, if nobody else), “Change UK” didn’t even last a year and was wound up shortly after its dismal showing in the 2019 election. Considering that the 48% had nobody to vote for in their efforts to see the referendum result ignored (with both Labour and the Tories pledging to enact it) this was an absolutely catastrophic miscalculation by the members of Change UK and demonstrated clearly that the UK electorate simply does not have the stomach for new parties - whatever they may be offering.

[New Judge]

//I believe one of the figures quoted was a loss of £80 billion a year to the UK economy – which has been revised up to £100 billion (which is reckoned to cost the exchequer around £40 billion per year in lost tax).//

Does the government take 40% in tax from the value of trade that companies conduct abroad?

//it’s hard to comprehend why anyone would believe Brexit to be beneficial to the UK.//

You may understand a little better if, instead of repeating the same mantra over and over again (which is becoming extremely tiresome), you engaged in a proper discussion. You might start by addressing the points I made in my response at 22:39 on Friday 25/11 to this question:

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/News/Question1818207-2.html

[Khandro]

NJ //Yes this article is twaddle// Is that an assertion or a quote ?

The article begins;

**AS I watch my children struggle to make ends meet, experiencing financial pressures with their energy bills, food costs, fuel prices – all those things essential to basic health and wellbeing and mobility for themselves and their children – I seriously wonder if we will be able to stop this descent into penury of vast swathes of the working population.**

If that doesn't chime with you & your life, you are a lucky man. I'm sure there are others on here for whom it does.

[ichkeria]

The first bit isn’t the problem

[ichkeria]

Well said NJ (not a Marxist I think)
It was plain even to me at the time that Change UK was probably doomed at birth or just after.
It's a common conceit of political extremists on the right (and often on the left also) that somehow they speak for a "silent majority" who just need a bit of a poke and somehow Leviathan will rise from the deep, sweeping away all the things they don't like and making everything the way it should be - according to them.
Whether it's a good thing that our system discourages the success of
smaller or newer parties is a matter for debate, but while our system's not perfect it's at least tolerably democratic, and generally parties adapt to their electorates.

[naomi24]

Khandro, doesn’t that description sound familiar to you? When did young people starting out in life not struggle to make ends meet?

[Khandro]

//....and generally parties adapt to their electorates.//

Hee-hee!

[Hymie]

Now, even the Tories are laughing at the people who were stupid enough to vote for Brexit.

[Aircooledfool]

"When did young people starting out in life not struggle to make ends meet?"
true enough , but back than there was not an all pervading sense of entitlement that there seems to be now
Perhaps the problem is really one of a lack of faith in politics and politicians , whatever their stripe.

[Hymie]

NJ, is it the £100 billion a year lost to the UK economy as a direct result of Brexit that you don’t believe, or is it that the UK economy suffering such a loss is not a disaster?

[Gromit]

// We can withhold our votes from all the major parties. We can vote for an emergent right-of-centre party //

There are several to choose from, but the British public have a habit of not voting for them.

// one which rejects the authoritarian sect, the globalist mantras of open borders, catastrophic climate change, Net Zero, digital currency, mRNA technology vaccines, the end of free movement, demonisation and cancellation of the voices of challenge and dissent, and the end of any form of national history, pride and identity. //

In short, a party of vaccine deniers, climate change deniers, Brexiteers and various other right wing nut job causes.

[naomi24]

And there I believe you have it, ACF. That sense of entitlement has a lot to answer for.

[Khandro]

naomi , //When did young people starting out in life not struggle to make ends meet?//

Tell me about it ! In the last decade alone the ratio between house prices & average incomes has risen near 100%

Yes we struggled but it seemed achievable. The future looks bleak for most young people starting out today, even with two people working.

[New Judge]

//NJ, is it the £100 billion a year lost to the UK economy as a direct result of Brexit that you don’t believe, or is it that the UK economy suffering such a loss is not a disaster?//

A bit of both.

Firstly, I don't know where that figure comes from and even if it is correct, how it can be all ascribed to Brexit (bearing in mind there are one or two other small matters from which it is difficult to disentangle the effect of Brexit).

Secondly, you keep simply saying "Brexit has been a disaster" (or occasionally and "utter disaster"). You seem to be basing this solely on the figures you keep repeating (which you’ve not substantiated). I’ve (twice) provided figures that show the UK’s year on year GDP growth over the last four quarters has outperformed – by a comfortable margin – those of the USA, Japan, France, Germany, the Eurozone as a whole, the G7 and the OECD. I’ve also explained that countries’ economies evolve at different rates and at different times and to cherrypick individual figures (as we have both done) is not particularly useful.

I’ve also suggested that there is more to the success or failure of Brexit than short term fluctuations in the economy – in particular the democratic deficit that Brexit has addressed (and I provided examples of some aspects to that).

So even if the UK economy has suffered as a result of Brexit by the amount you suggest (which is by no means certain) I do not believe that Brexit has been a disaster. My measure of success (as I’ve explained before) was to see the UK’s membership of the EU come to an end. That’s been achieved and as far as I am concerned it has been an unmitigated success. The rest, as I’ve also said before, is simply “noise.”

[New Judge]

//Is that an assertion or a quote ?//

It’s an assertion. Young people have no more difficult a time now than those of thirty or forty years ago had. And they certainly have a much easier time than those of seventy or eighty years ago had. Their problems are different, that’s all. Couple with that the sense of entitlement that our new friend mentions at 16:09 and it all adds up. Many young people today choose to spend their money differently. They have not had to prioritise too much in the last 20 years or so because all the things they actually need have been relatively inexpensive as a result of ridiculously cheap money (caused by printing too much of the stuff). Now the bills have started to arrive for that folly. Those who were gloating at low single digit mortgage rates and those who welcomed being furloughed for a couple of years have now realised that all that has to be paid for. The only surprising thing is that the bubble lasted so long.


//In short, a party of vaccine deniers, climate change deniers, Brexiteers and various other right wing nut job causes.//

I think you would do well not to lump all of those together with “right wing nut job causes.”

There are some people who have in their mind that Covid vaccine was a conspiracy to see microchips injected int their bodies. There are people who believe that climate change is not occurring at all. They are entitled to their opinion, as daft as it may appear to some. But there are some people who do not trust a vaccine that was developed so quickly without the usual years of testing. There are others who believe that although the climate clearly is changing, that the effects of human activity on it has been grossly overstated. Their opinions are not quite so daft and are not worthy of such insolent dismissal. As far as Brexit goes, your statement implies that more than 17 million people adhere to a “right wing nut job cause.” This is clearly nonsense (and insulting nonsense at that) and so needs no more commentary than that.

[jno]

surely Thatcher was the foremost proponent of globalisation? She boasted of it often enough. Are Tories beginning to have second thoughts about her and her programme?

[Togo]

Far from it^^
Mrs Thatcher stood for globalisation in economics, but was a staunch defender of the nation-state when it came to politics. Global Market forces were her message. They are still there.

[naomi24]

Khandro, you say ‘even with two people working’, but young couples getting on the property ladder has usually, at least in my lifetime, required two people to be working.

[Canary42]

Scaremongering propaganda - typical tory ploy.