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Calm down dear, calm down...
A tad patronising?
Answers
The House Of Commons is acknowledged as one of the last great bastions of sexism, and any woman MP is aware of that, and works round it.
This was a situation in the House Of Commons, and this was the Prime Minister speaking to an elected MP, not some joshing in a pub round the corner.
This was a situation in the House Of Commons, and this was the Prime Minister speaking to an elected MP, not some joshing in a pub round the corner.
19:16 Wed 27th Apr 2011
-- answer removed --
It was a patronising remark and Cameron knew it, nor do I think any the worse of him for saying it. The ability to patronise comes with being top dog. Much worse has been said in parliament. The only possible criticism is that there is a strict code of conduct as to how members may be addressed while in the Chamber. "Would the Honourable Member for ... please calm down", would be perfectly acceptable. If anyone is to blame it is the Squeaker, for not insisting upon this.
ixion ...
Yes, you were misreading my post.
I appreciate that most people called "Angela" are, in fact, female.
But ...
1. DC calls AE "dear"
2. Pinko PC lefties pounce on this as "sexist"
3. Gay guys frequently call people "dear"
4. If a gay guy calls a gay guy "dear" that is not sexist.
5. So, the word "dear" is not inherently sexist ...
6. ... except in the minds of the Labour crowd ...
... whose minds are evidently so crammed with sexist thoughts that they will imagine sexism anywhere. So ...
7. The only sexism is in the minds of the Pinkos.
8. So it is they, rather than David Cameron, who have "sexist" tendencies.
Their trouble is ...
They see "patronising" ... and they think "sexist"
They see chivalry, or courtesy ... and they think "sexist"
Their minds are bursting with sexist thoughts, which they project onto every innocent utterance from anyone else.
Yes, you were misreading my post.
I appreciate that most people called "Angela" are, in fact, female.
But ...
1. DC calls AE "dear"
2. Pinko PC lefties pounce on this as "sexist"
3. Gay guys frequently call people "dear"
4. If a gay guy calls a gay guy "dear" that is not sexist.
5. So, the word "dear" is not inherently sexist ...
6. ... except in the minds of the Labour crowd ...
... whose minds are evidently so crammed with sexist thoughts that they will imagine sexism anywhere. So ...
7. The only sexism is in the minds of the Pinkos.
8. So it is they, rather than David Cameron, who have "sexist" tendencies.
Their trouble is ...
They see "patronising" ... and they think "sexist"
They see chivalry, or courtesy ... and they think "sexist"
Their minds are bursting with sexist thoughts, which they project onto every innocent utterance from anyone else.
JJ, I don't think words are inherently anything; it's the way they're used. My question isn't what a gay man would have said but what Cameron would have said if he'd been talking to a male. My guess is he wouldn't have said 'dear'. (One possible reason: it would have made him sound llike a gay man.)
I totality agree with joggerjayne who has posted an excellent answer.
Seems to me that most posters on this have let their political leanings get in the way of their common sense.
If that is all that is needed to attract so much media and political attention in a time when the country and the world is in such a mess, then I fear all is lost.
Seems to me that most posters on this have let their political leanings get in the way of their common sense.
If that is all that is needed to attract so much media and political attention in a time when the country and the world is in such a mess, then I fear all is lost.
Davethedog
/// Its grist to the mill for the red tops and Daily Mail reading ABers ///
Don't take this opportunity to blame just the red tops or indeed the Daily Mail reading ABers.
This un-event has been widely reported on, by not only other newspapers, but also by national radio and television news.
/// Its grist to the mill for the red tops and Daily Mail reading ABers ///
Don't take this opportunity to blame just the red tops or indeed the Daily Mail reading ABers.
This un-event has been widely reported on, by not only other newspapers, but also by national radio and television news.
jogger-jayne - because of the limitations of printed communication, I find it difficult to tell if your last post was being ironic or not - i hope so, but just in case you were being serious - as AOG takes it -
your logic is inherently flawed, since logic can only be applied to facts, and the use of logic is fluid and ever-changing, and does not stand up to analysis of this type. You posted -
If a gay guy calls a gay guy "dear" that is not sexist.
5. So, the word "dear" is not inherently sexist ...
Under that analysis - if you call a mouse 'grey' that is its colour
So if an elephant is 'grey' then it is a mouse.
It doesn't follow at all.
But to take your example of language useage a step further -
If a black man standing on a street corner refers to his black friend as "My n*gga" - that is not offensive. If you or I referred to a black man we did not know as "My n*gga" - that would be offesnive, and indeed an arrestable offence in law.
This incident is about the use of the word and its context.
Cameron clearly tried to be funny by apeing the TV advert, and as i mentioned in my original post, being terminally humourless, as are most Tories (OK kidding!) - he failed to anticipate the offence his use of the word in that context would cause.
Cameron was knowingly rude, in an attempt to be funny, he failed, misjudged his remark, and should appologise for any offence he caused - however unwittingly.
your logic is inherently flawed, since logic can only be applied to facts, and the use of logic is fluid and ever-changing, and does not stand up to analysis of this type. You posted -
If a gay guy calls a gay guy "dear" that is not sexist.
5. So, the word "dear" is not inherently sexist ...
Under that analysis - if you call a mouse 'grey' that is its colour
So if an elephant is 'grey' then it is a mouse.
It doesn't follow at all.
But to take your example of language useage a step further -
If a black man standing on a street corner refers to his black friend as "My n*gga" - that is not offensive. If you or I referred to a black man we did not know as "My n*gga" - that would be offesnive, and indeed an arrestable offence in law.
This incident is about the use of the word and its context.
Cameron clearly tried to be funny by apeing the TV advert, and as i mentioned in my original post, being terminally humourless, as are most Tories (OK kidding!) - he failed to anticipate the offence his use of the word in that context would cause.
Cameron was knowingly rude, in an attempt to be funny, he failed, misjudged his remark, and should appologise for any offence he caused - however unwittingly.
All I can say that if any man or woman spoke to me like that I would feel like hitting them. Cameron should have had more sense. It is patronising and was said in a patronising fashion. Sexism doesn't come into it really, although I suppose he wouldn't have said it to a bloke. It is the word 'Dear' and the actually way it was said. A straight forward 'calm down' said in a different way would have been fine.
JJ - I return to my original post - there is a time and a place to use a throaway remark as a joke - it depnds on the simple factors involved -
is this an appropriate time and place to be joking with someone?
is the recipient going to appreciate the humour, while they are making a serious point?
are you known as a commedian who has a robust sense of humour?
or
is the The House Of Commons, with media and public watching you earn your salary as the Prime Minister of this country?
is the recipient of your 'joke' an elected MP who is trying to make a point in a debate, and unlikely to appreciate either your levity, of the fact that you have interupted her when she is making an observation about something you are saying?
is there a danger that your 'joke' makes you look like a pmpous ignorant rude buffoon?
should you be old enough, experienced enough, and good-mannered enough to save your 'humour' for the tea rooms, and leave it outside the Chamber?
Over to you ...
is this an appropriate time and place to be joking with someone?
is the recipient going to appreciate the humour, while they are making a serious point?
are you known as a commedian who has a robust sense of humour?
or
is the The House Of Commons, with media and public watching you earn your salary as the Prime Minister of this country?
is the recipient of your 'joke' an elected MP who is trying to make a point in a debate, and unlikely to appreciate either your levity, of the fact that you have interupted her when she is making an observation about something you are saying?
is there a danger that your 'joke' makes you look like a pmpous ignorant rude buffoon?
should you be old enough, experienced enough, and good-mannered enough to save your 'humour' for the tea rooms, and leave it outside the Chamber?
Over to you ...
-- answer removed --
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