Dale Farm

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....ise-war-meetings.html

What will be the outcome to all this?

Why are these activists causing so much trouble?

/// Meanwhile Northern Irish TV presenter Gloria Hunniford arrived by taxi at the site this morning. It was unclear if she was supporting the travellers, or calling for them to leave.///

Speaking up for her own county folk, no doubt?

[LoftyLottie]

Ankou, the site close to me which was built early this year, after a lot of objections and planning meetings and at taxpayers expense has remained empty.

I attended one of those planning meetings (on another matter) and the room was full of travellers all giving their reasons for needing the site.

I don't suppose a site that is supervised and for which they have to pay rent meets their requirement.

[bednobs]

all of the spokeswomen (seem to be quite a lack of me) seem to be Irish. Therefore they have come from abroad. I wonder if there would be such support for them if they were from eastern europe, or even other european countries, such as holland or france?

[bednobs]

i mean lack of men of course not lack of me!

[LoftyLottie]

They are even less popular in Ireland than they are here.

[ummmm]

I think many of them were born here but as the don't really mix with the English they have Irish accents.

[LoftyLottie]

It's a very strange accent ummmm, isn't it? It is definitely 'traveller' rather than Irish, although it obviously has more Irish than anything else.

[emmie]

This matter is a farce, ten very long years, and it doesn't matter that it was a scrapyard before. If they get to stay, then I can see this opening another can of worms, and giving the green light to other travelling communities to do as they please.

[LoftyLottie]

And yes, I agree, very many of them were born and bred here.

[jackthehat]

A similar occurrence not far from where I used to live, Lottie.

In consultation with the travellers, a site was built with a Warden's Office/accommodation and fitted out toilet/laundry block.

Within 2 weeks Warden's property burnt out and all pipes/fittings and fixtures removed from toilet/laundry block.

All of these stories cannot simply be attempts to demonise and besmirch the reputations of a bunch of 'whimsical and friendly' travellers...

[Kromovaracun]

"If they get to stay, then I can see this opening another can of worms, and giving the green light to other travelling communities to do as they please. "

The trouble is that allowing the eviction to go ahead will have terrible consequences of its own.

I'm undecided personally (and I really don't envy the people who have to make this decision) but I think it's the least we can do to respect that the situation is complicated and not nearly as unambiguous as you're making it out to be.

[shaneystar2]

I'm on the fence with this .
The place was a scrapyard .Just where are these people going to go ?
Millions of pounds of ratepayers money spent on removing them .Which the ratepayers will eventually have to divvy up via their council tax .
I've not seen anyone from the surrounding area complaining only that dodgy looking guy with the dog that the BBC keep wheeling out .

[Barmaid]

If anyone wants to read it, the Court of Appeal decision is here:-

http://www.bailii.org...EWCA/Civ/2009/13.html

[LoftyLottie]

If they are allowed to stay it will also give the green light to non travellers with land who will ignore planning permission and just erect properties on their land. So all over the country buildings will go up in all sorts of places (including my garden) and shanty towns could develop.

Once a precedent has been established by letting the buildings, vans, etc. stay, then it is going to be very difficult to enforce the law and the costs involved will far outweigh what Dale Farm is costing us.

The law is there for a reason.

[emmie]

K no one suggested it isn't complicated now, but it wouldn't have been had the council been able to move them on ten years ago. If they don't work, how did they get the money together to purchase the land. And if its proven that some do have homes in Ireland, wouldn't that be a slap in the face to the council and the taxpayers who are paying for this nonsense.

[Kromovaracun]

"If they are allowed to stay it will also give the green light to non travellers with land who will ignore planning permission and just erect properties on their land. So all over the country buildings will go up in all sorts of places (including my garden) and shanty towns could develop."

Yes. And if they are evicted, there will be a huge mass of travellers who feel they have nowhere to go and will be homeless. Which consequence is more manageable?

[LoftyLottie]

Yes, but they won't be evicted because there will be problems with getting them evicted after the precedent on non eviction from Dale Farm has been established.

[LoftyLottie]

And Planning Laws and Building Regs will be flouted all over the place, not just for new dwellings - garages, extensions, etc. etc.

[Twenty20]

Where are they going to go?


Apparently there is a legal site for 'travellers' only some 100 metres up the road. Some of them have already moved there.

I'd suggest there are now far more 'activists' (i.e. people who simply want confrontation) than original travellers.

[LoftyLottie]

As I said, Twenty, there is an empty legal site that has never been used only 3 or 4 miles from me and I am sure there are many more ;o)

[Kromovaracun]

"Yes, but they won't be evicted because there will be problems with getting them evicted after the precedent on non eviction from Dale Farm has been established. "

My original comment related to the eviction of DF rather than subsequent ones, but I see what you're saying. My question is whether the situation you are portraying is really as impossible to recover from as you seem to imply. Maybe I'm just naive, but will this really put us on the road to anarchy like you suggest? Really? If the government simply enforces the law in other cases, will your apocalyptic scenario actually play out? This will of course generate accusations of hypocrisy, but isn't that preferable to having thousands of homeless children on your conscience?

Please don't get me wrong - this will sound like I'm arguing emphatically in favour of not going through with the eviction. I'm not - as I say, I'm undecided because I think the issue is complicated. I just think we need to really weigh out the consequences and think deeply about our attitude to the law rather than just saying 'end of'.