The most fantastically ignorant newspaper article of the year?

[sp1814]

To summarise - "there was a lot more racism in football 20 years ago, so if black players face racial abuse today, they should put up and shut up":

http://www.dailymail....n-Ferdinand-game.html

Now I know that newspapers tend to publish articles to appeal to their readership demographics - but really...who in their right minds thinks that this is a valid argument?

[sp1814]

But we're getting a little off topic - the question is about the tone of the article?

If someone were to scream 'you f**king <race> c**t' at you, would you shrug and say nothing?

Or would you think it needs to be addressed?

[Ankou]

to be fair, when i read the link the reader comments at the bottom of the page seem to agree that the article is a shower of sh_

[sir.prize]

For the record - I love black pudding!

[mungbeanz]

black bastard, fat bastard, ginger bastard... The real insult is bastard. The other adjective is merely describing the appearance of the insultee. If Terry had wanted to racially abuse the other player, he would probably have chosen a derogatory word for the race of Ferdinand.

[pa___ul3]

back to the article, he mentions it himself, the 'kick racism out of football campaign'.. that's all that needs to be mentioned really.
There is a campaign... racism was used... we need to do something to ensure it doesn't happen again or the campaign isn't fulfilling it's intention.
What he's saying is ignorant, at the very least, to this very campaign he has mentioned!

[Ankou]

"If Terry had wanted to racially abuse the other player, he would probably have chosen a derogatory word for the race of Ferdinand."

wow. so instead he just calls him a black bastard which is ok right ?

[naomi24]

SP, yes, seriously. I didn't suggest it's not racist - quite the reverse - but by taking offence at a factual statement - eg 'you are black' - you are giving the abuser exactly what he wants - and that isn't the way to fight racism. I thought I'd made that clear.

Pa__ul, similarly with the words 'baldy' or 'Jew'.

The thing is, we can legislate against the spoken word, but we cannot legislate against a thought, and whilst those thoughts are being supported - which is what you are in effect doing by taking offence at them - they are never going to change. If you stop taking offence at factual statements, the abuser has nowhere left to go. Don't let him get the better of you. Be clever. Fight him on the ground of his making! Rather than bite and bristle with indignation, agree with him. You ARE black, or bald, or Jewish. All he's left with then is 'f**king c**t' ', which he can apply to anyone regardless of colour, creed - or hairiness. Basically, his attempt to denigrate you on a racist or personal level hasn't worked - it never will work - and therefore you've beaten him and he's buggered!

[Ankou]

but thats the point isn't it. he used a racist term and should be bought to book not assessed on his literary or colloquial merit.

[naomi24]

SP, //If someone were to scream 'you f**king <race> c**t' at you, would you shrug and say nothing? //

I'd be offended at the 'f**king c**t', but not by being called English. I see nothing to be ashamed of in that - just as I see nothing to be ashamed of in being black or Jewish - so it doesn't need to be defended. I wouldn't say anything about the rest though because I wouldn't give an idiot the satisfaction of knowing I'd lowered myself to his level.

[pa___ul3]

mungbeanz.. if someone called me a handsome bastard I'd take it as a compliment. The descriptive term is indeed influential or it wouldn't have been used. You call someone a fat bastard because you want them to feel bad about being fat, making out that you see their fatness as something to deride.

[naomi24]

^^ Exactly, so don't give them the satisfaction.

[Ankou]

"if someone called me a handsome bastard I'd take it as a compliment."

yeah but lets face it paul, never gonna happen is it.



:o]

[tamborine]

color isn't racist ! c..t is a vagina ? Call me a ginger c..t & I would call you a peeping tom :)

[pa___ul3]

I think I get what you're saying Naomi.. if someone were to call me an English bastard, they'd be using the English as an insult too thus, in turn, insulting all English. So to beat that we must accept the English part of the insult as a compliment. Is that right? (although I haven't described it well!)
I wouldn't disagree with the intentions of that, and would probably be manageable on an individual level but would take a lot of very thick skinned people create a shift on a grander scale. But yeah, I could see that as a possibility!

[ludwig]

The addition of the word black/english/fat/ginger at the beginining of an insult is highly significant. It's more than just a extra piece of descriptive narrative.

It says 'As well as thinking you're a c*** I also have an opinion about the fact you're black/english/etc and it's not a nice one - that's why I'm including it in the insult'.

I think that's why it shouldn't necessarily just be shrugged off.

[Ankou]

tambo.

"The UN does not define "racism", however it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life."

since colour is included in that, i would beg to differ. but ultimately its for the fa to decide in this instance.

[sp1814]

I dunno.

If someone were to call me a 'f**king black c**t' I don't think I would have the presence of mind to deconstruct the abuse into it's constituent parts in order to assess the relative degrees of insult. To me, the abuse would come as a package, with one part supporting the rest.

I can now see your point naomi24, but I think in reality, most people would instinctively take the descriptive adjective to be joined with the noun, and find the whole thing insulting.

[anotheoldgit]

jackthehat

/// It's come to a fine pass when you can't call a black person a 'n****r' without them getting all uppity about it.///

There you go again sensationalising again, no one, trt or Terry used the 'N' word.

So lets make that clear.

[anotheoldgit]

sp1814

Would it have been alright to have called him just a f**king c**t, if so it must be the word 'Black' that turns it racist?

So then will you agree, that it is also be deemed racist for a black person to include the word white in their insults?

Can't remember any black person accused of racism, so I presume it does work both ways.

Unless of course black persons never hand out insults to white persons.

[naomi24]

// if someone were to call me an English bastard, they'd be using the English as an insult too thus, in turn, insulting all English.//

Yes, they would be using the 'English', or 'black', or 'Jewish', as an insult - but by taking offence you are concurring with them that something that is just a fact of life is an insult and therefore relegating your own mentality to their level.

Good discussion chaps, but got to go out now. Bye.