ChatterBank1 min ago
FIFA bans Poppies on footballl shirts
// Fifa have rejected a Government request that England and Wales be allowed to wear commemorative poppies in this weekend's friendlies, claiming the move would "jeopardise the neutrality of football." //
http://www.telegraph....-Government-plea.html
Not sure how this is any different than a team wearing black armbands or having a minutes silence before a match. Would it be disrespectful to England's guests to just ignore FIFA and pay any fine that might be imposed?
http://www.telegraph....-Government-plea.html
Not sure how this is any different than a team wearing black armbands or having a minutes silence before a match. Would it be disrespectful to England's guests to just ignore FIFA and pay any fine that might be imposed?
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There seems to be a lot of anger surrounding the poppy, as there has been for the last few years.
The wearing of a Poppy is a personal choice. You choose to buy it as an act of remembrance to those who never returned, and as a statement of thanks to those who did but who will never fully be able to rid themselves of the legacy. The Royal British Legion does stirling work for our ex-forces be they 18 years old or 80. They help those who have given themselves to the service of the country.
I have yet to hear a valid counter-argument to the wearing of a poppy. They do not glorify war, or condone conflict. In fact, they do the opposite. They remind us that the scenes we see on the news or in documentaries are not just pictures on a screen; they are real and they have a very real human cost. Thankfully, the majority of you will never have to experience the trauma of losing a loved one, or going with your 20 year old son to have his new legs fitted, or watching your husband scream himself hoarse after another nightmare and then watch him reach for the whiskey to numb the pain in his heart.
Soldiers, sailors and airmen are real people. They are not mindless killers, or closet psychopaths. When they kill it affects them, when they watch their mates die it hurts them. Conflict is a horrific place, and does change you.
The poppy is our opportunity, as the general public, to say thanks and that we remember. It does not differentiate between creed, colour or age. It is inclusive of every conflict.
Finally, please remember that it is not the military who choose where or when we fight. It is the Government YOU elected. If you feel so strongly about the military then stop whinging on a website and take a real stand.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
The wearing of a Poppy is a personal choice. You choose to buy it as an act of remembrance to those who never returned, and as a statement of thanks to those who did but who will never fully be able to rid themselves of the legacy. The Royal British Legion does stirling work for our ex-forces be they 18 years old or 80. They help those who have given themselves to the service of the country.
I have yet to hear a valid counter-argument to the wearing of a poppy. They do not glorify war, or condone conflict. In fact, they do the opposite. They remind us that the scenes we see on the news or in documentaries are not just pictures on a screen; they are real and they have a very real human cost. Thankfully, the majority of you will never have to experience the trauma of losing a loved one, or going with your 20 year old son to have his new legs fitted, or watching your husband scream himself hoarse after another nightmare and then watch him reach for the whiskey to numb the pain in his heart.
Soldiers, sailors and airmen are real people. They are not mindless killers, or closet psychopaths. When they kill it affects them, when they watch their mates die it hurts them. Conflict is a horrific place, and does change you.
The poppy is our opportunity, as the general public, to say thanks and that we remember. It does not differentiate between creed, colour or age. It is inclusive of every conflict.
Finally, please remember that it is not the military who choose where or when we fight. It is the Government YOU elected. If you feel so strongly about the military then stop whinging on a website and take a real stand.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
Arrrghhh - this it doing my head in, as they say in Eastenders.
Look - what's the big deal. If a football player wishes to wear a poppy, he should buy one like the rest of us, pay his £1 to the Royal British legion and wear it with pride when he's not playing.
If he has a poppy embroidered onto his shirt, it means precisely nothing, because effectively he's been co-opted into wearing it. Peer pressure will mean that he wears one, because he will not have the guts to 'do a Peter Snow'.
I myself bought four poppies this year (one for each Mon - Thurs suit), but chose to wear it on the inside of my lapel because I've noticed and increased level of piety in some who wear them and I find these people kinda irritating.
...which is hypocritical of me, because I'll wear an ribbon on World AIDS Day with pride - meaning I have my own area of piety.
Go figure.
Look - what's the big deal. If a football player wishes to wear a poppy, he should buy one like the rest of us, pay his £1 to the Royal British legion and wear it with pride when he's not playing.
If he has a poppy embroidered onto his shirt, it means precisely nothing, because effectively he's been co-opted into wearing it. Peer pressure will mean that he wears one, because he will not have the guts to 'do a Peter Snow'.
I myself bought four poppies this year (one for each Mon - Thurs suit), but chose to wear it on the inside of my lapel because I've noticed and increased level of piety in some who wear them and I find these people kinda irritating.
...which is hypocritical of me, because I'll wear an ribbon on World AIDS Day with pride - meaning I have my own area of piety.
Go figure.
bobjugs12
"The poppy is our opportunity, as the general public, to say thanks and that we remember."
Exactly - but if you're a football player and you put on a shirt that has a poppy embroidered on it, it means nothing. It's not your sentiment. It's pre-ordained.
It's actually quite cynical - if you watch any news broadcast, The X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, This Morning, Loose Women, The One Show, or any live TV show right now, you will notice that every single person it wearing a poppy.
I would bet you a monthly salary that a) they did not all buy their own poppies and b) they were strongly advised to wear one on screen at all times (actually, I know this for a fact because I'm good friends with someone who works on a few of these shows).
There's a difference between you and I buying a poppies and putting our money in the tin, and the cynical "us too-ism" of the corporate world.
Their focus is more on public perception, rather than honouring those that have fallen.
"The poppy is our opportunity, as the general public, to say thanks and that we remember."
Exactly - but if you're a football player and you put on a shirt that has a poppy embroidered on it, it means nothing. It's not your sentiment. It's pre-ordained.
It's actually quite cynical - if you watch any news broadcast, The X Factor, Strictly Come Dancing, This Morning, Loose Women, The One Show, or any live TV show right now, you will notice that every single person it wearing a poppy.
I would bet you a monthly salary that a) they did not all buy their own poppies and b) they were strongly advised to wear one on screen at all times (actually, I know this for a fact because I'm good friends with someone who works on a few of these shows).
There's a difference between you and I buying a poppies and putting our money in the tin, and the cynical "us too-ism" of the corporate world.
Their focus is more on public perception, rather than honouring those that have fallen.
-- answer removed --
//Finally, please remember that it is not the military who choose where or when we fight. It is the Government YOU elected//
exactly Bob
It's called abdicating your moral responsibility - it's ducking out and letting other people worry about the rights and wrongs of your actions
In it's extreme form it leads to soldiers in concentration camps claiming that they were only following orders.
I have a poem for you
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori
(that old lie is "it is a sweet and fitting thing to die for your country")
exactly Bob
It's called abdicating your moral responsibility - it's ducking out and letting other people worry about the rights and wrongs of your actions
In it's extreme form it leads to soldiers in concentration camps claiming that they were only following orders.
I have a poem for you
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie; Dulce et Decorum est
Pro patria mori
(that old lie is "it is a sweet and fitting thing to die for your country")
For crying out loud, Jake.
From poppies on football shirts to concentration camps......that deserves a round of applause for the tortuous logic to get there ; most ingenious application of Godwin's Law.
Don't wear a poppy, Jake, please don't, not if it offends your delicate sensibilities......and, please, be sneeringly patronising to those who choose to, by all means, if it gives you a sense of superiority.
But I do wonder quite why you think it acceptable to use the same insulting tone year after year after year to those who have their own deeply held reasons for buying and wearing the poppy?
That you are dismissive of most things British is apparent; that you choose to attempt to diminish the sacrifices made by men and women is disappointing in someone who likes to promote his own attributes so far and so often on this forum.
You are both a boor and a bore on this particular issue...
From poppies on football shirts to concentration camps......that deserves a round of applause for the tortuous logic to get there ; most ingenious application of Godwin's Law.
Don't wear a poppy, Jake, please don't, not if it offends your delicate sensibilities......and, please, be sneeringly patronising to those who choose to, by all means, if it gives you a sense of superiority.
But I do wonder quite why you think it acceptable to use the same insulting tone year after year after year to those who have their own deeply held reasons for buying and wearing the poppy?
That you are dismissive of most things British is apparent; that you choose to attempt to diminish the sacrifices made by men and women is disappointing in someone who likes to promote his own attributes so far and so often on this forum.
You are both a boor and a bore on this particular issue...
Sorry Ludwig you're clearly having trouble following the argument
It's not about poppies now - let me recap
Bob has the cheek to come on and give the "Neurenberg defense"
"It's not us we're fighting because You asked us to"
Why do you think it's called the Neurenberg defense?
He paints a picture of noble soldiers fighting in our defense - only that'ts not really happened in the last 70 years.
In reality 10% of our prison population are ex-servicemen, the army lets in people with a criminal record and the average educational qualification of recruits is a couple of GCSEs
The poppys and associated respect to the armed services acts as a recruiting aid to children
30% join the army as minors
http://www.publicatio.../text/111004-0001.htm
Too young to decide whether or not to drink but old enough to be sucked into the army.
Unfortunately you're clearly way to emotionally invested in all this to see just how wrong all this is.
You just decide anybody who contradicts you on this is "silly"
It's not about poppies now - let me recap
Bob has the cheek to come on and give the "Neurenberg defense"
"It's not us we're fighting because You asked us to"
Why do you think it's called the Neurenberg defense?
He paints a picture of noble soldiers fighting in our defense - only that'ts not really happened in the last 70 years.
In reality 10% of our prison population are ex-servicemen, the army lets in people with a criminal record and the average educational qualification of recruits is a couple of GCSEs
The poppys and associated respect to the armed services acts as a recruiting aid to children
30% join the army as minors
http://www.publicatio.../text/111004-0001.htm
Too young to decide whether or not to drink but old enough to be sucked into the army.
Unfortunately you're clearly way to emotionally invested in all this to see just how wrong all this is.
You just decide anybody who contradicts you on this is "silly"
-- answer removed --
tangent? more like tangerine in the mad house.
Suggest you emigrate to somewhere like The Georgia Islands - where only the smallest touch of war has just scraped those fair mountaineous isles....and managed to leave no scars or no dead, other than a few penguins, seals and other birds/antartican mammals.
I hear that "Penguin Coronation" is a mighty fine dish at this time of year to survive on - and not even adorned with any poppy garnish.....Enjoy
Suggest you emigrate to somewhere like The Georgia Islands - where only the smallest touch of war has just scraped those fair mountaineous isles....and managed to leave no scars or no dead, other than a few penguins, seals and other birds/antartican mammals.
I hear that "Penguin Coronation" is a mighty fine dish at this time of year to survive on - and not even adorned with any poppy garnish.....Enjoy
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